[00:00:00] Michael Pacheco: Hello everybody. And welcome once again to another episode of the remarkable coach podcast. As always, I’m your host, Michael Pacheco. And joining me today for an encore presentation is Stephanie Bergo. Stephanie holds a degree in applied neuroscience coaching and a master’s degree in cultural business management.
She’s been a potential catalyst for more than a decade. She has supported many individuals and businesses in achieving their goals. And Stephanie’s goal is that every person can bring the best of herself to the role that suits her. Stephanie, welcome back to The Remarkable
[00:00:37] Stéphanie Bergot: Coach. Thank you for inviting me again.
It’s a real pleasure. I
[00:00:42] Michael Pacheco: had to, because when we talked last time, I think, I don’t know if our episode was two hours long, but I think you and I talked for almost two hours. Yes, we talked for a long
[00:00:56] Stéphanie Bergot: time, almost two hours, and I think that the yeah, an hour and two minutes had been published.
Okay, there you go, yeah,
[00:01:06] Michael Pacheco: so it was yeah, it was great. We had a great conversation and and yeah, so of course I had to bring you back on and for those of you listening and watching If you haven’t seen the first episode with Stephanie that was released on January 25th, 2023.
So about five months ago from the day we’re recording now, probably we’re looking at six to seven months from the day that this one is published. So go back and check that out. It was a really good conversation as evidenced by the we went a full hour and then continued to talk off off
[00:01:41] Stéphanie Bergot: screen.
[00:01:42] Michael Pacheco: Anyways, yeah. So Stephanie, for those for those of our guests and viewers who have not had a chance to listen to your first episode, why don’t you tell us a little bit about yourself and your own words and what it is exactly that you do?
[00:01:54] Stéphanie Bergot: Sure. Sure. Yeah, so I’m a coach and I mostly Work with entrepreneurs, like 85 percent of my business is with entrepreneur and 15 others are people that want to throw everything up and change their life.
So for example, they get to a point where they have everything they expected they wanted. And when they get there, they’re like, ah, it doesn’t feel like I. expected it would. It doesn’t fulfill me the way I think it would. Clearly, it’s not exactly what I thought. And so people come to me and they’re like, okay, I’m a bit mixed up.
I thought I would be very happy and fulfilled doing. This and most of the time they have a family, a marriage, a great job or a great business and still they don’t feel so we’re mostly going on a discovery path when we do that because they don’t know what would. Fulfill what they think they are missing and everything.
So I love that also. And I’ve been a coach for only a coach and I put it in for the past seven years before I was also a project manager. That’s how I became a coach. Actually, I used to work in event planning then in project management for entrepreneurs and. All at the time, at the end of the project, or when we were releasing the new product, the new line of business, or whatever, entrepreneur, which is totally normal, got stressed.
And finally, you always manage the human more than the project. And seven years ago, I decided to go, as you said, in a master in neuroscience applied to coaching, because I wanted to help them. Other than with my personality, I help them really with understanding how it works. Sometimes your brain you feel like you’re working on stuff and it doesn’t go through and you’re like, how come?
Like I’m putting all that energy and intention and even that doesn’t make exactly what I feel that I would like to achieve. So I went in neuroscience and I’m a, how do you say that? I’m a lifelong student, I just finished another year of coaching training with a guy named Guillaume Zlud, which is a guy from Quebec, he’s known all over, but he’s very interesting, and it’s all about like the managing anxiety, because everyone has, and unfortunately some people think that we have to get rid of anxiety as it’s not the case.
It’s almost impossible, like it’s a message from your brain that something is not exactly as it should, and it’s like for emotion, for example, if you’re, you have fear it’s sometimes to save your life. Just like. You have to understand what those messages mean and how to take care of them and so for the past year I’ve been training with him on anxiety management and it was super cool because it’s the best predictor of eye anxiety is fly, fight, and freeze, so when you freeze or when you fly, when you decide not to go and sometimes you’re scared of some stuff and instead of confronting that, you’re trying to avoid, and that’s one of the biggest problem in our society. We try to avoid things that are not easy, nice, happy, and fun. So it comes back after, like many things come back.
[00:05:48] Michael Pacheco: And those kinds of behaviors, right? Those kinds of behaviors exist in us for a very important reason, because for thousands of years, as we were evolving.
We want to avoid things like, maybe we’re scared of the dark because there might be a tiger out there, but in 2023, it’s important to be aware that, there’s, for most of us, we’re not worried physically about tigers, right? But we still have these mechanisms and these reactions and these chemicals in our brain that, that.
Feel terrifying, even though, there’s, it’s not life or death literally at stake.
[00:06:23] Stéphanie Bergot: Totally. And one of the best way to overcome fear is to be courageous and the brain doesn’t do the difference between a real danger and a presumed danger. So for example being scared of talking in public.
Is a great fear in the world. Many people are scared of that, but the brain react as if it was a tiger. And if you, it needs to be controlled, if it’s very scary and you put yourself in those situation, you increase the level of stress and anxiety. And sometimes it’s, it doesn’t do exactly what you want, but if it’s.
I would say a normal fear, five out of ten, the best way to overcome that is to be courageous. Yeah. Go, and for example, talk for two minutes instead of for an hour, and one day you talk for two, and then for five, and then for ten, and then for an hour. Yeah. But clearly, if you only I’m not going to go. I’m not going to go.
Michael, you’re going to go for me because you’re a lot more able than I am. And then time builds and you’re like, okay, it’s been like five years. I’m scared of that. And the fear grows and you’re more and more. But. And that’s for example, speaking in public, but some people are scared of driving and instead of doing it they avoid.
And sometimes people are scared of having a difficult conversation. None of us love having a difficult conversation with our loved one, with our colleagues, with our employees, with our friends, with none of us. Yeah. But some do. Even though it’s not easy and some run and those that run if you don’t, and you’re married, you have a life, if you run from conversation one time, it’s one thing, but if every time you run from conversation, cause you don’t want it’s going to catch you up, like things won’t get better.
And so running away from things you fear. Is one of the biggest reason people have anxiety or freezing. And for example, you don’t like your job. There’s something you don’t like. You don’t want to talk with your boss about it because you’re scared of the reaction of whatever you stay in that job for a year, for two years, for five years, for 10 years.
And one day the doctor said you’re burning out. Oh it’s really. Now you’re burning out. Sometimes it’s when many Other things in your life are difficult, but most of the time it’s because you didn’t answer or take care of something that was there for a
[00:09:16] Michael Pacheco: long time. It’s a slow process, right? It’s not something, you don’t wake up one morning and be like, oh, I’m burnt out.
It happens over a period of time as you’re suppressing. Your own needs, whatever those are. And you’re not, you’re just not answering the call of yourself.
[00:09:32] Stéphanie Bergot: Totally. And most of the time it’s out of fear because why won’t you choose yourself out of everyone and anything else?
Because you’re, for example, if you talk to your boss, care, they will. fire you, or you’re scared you won’t find something else, or you’re scared that the money won’t come in, or you’re, it’s rarely because you’re at peace with something that you don’t go for it. And everyone has fear. Honestly, no one I know, even people saying I’m not scared of anyone and anything, they are
[00:10:09] Michael Pacheco: for some stuff.
Yeah. Yeah, it’s interesting. I think, even with the with the public speaking concept or the example that you gave, I’ve read that stems from, again, O old times, thousands of years of tribalism and fear of being rejected from the tribe. And a thou 2000, 3000, 10,000 years ago, if you’re rejected from the tribe, you’re on your own.
It means you’re dead. Then you’re dead. You can’t survive on your own. Yeah, exactly. 5,000 years ago, again today, it’s just not a realistic fear. And. Being, I don’t know, I think, I feel like there’s a really important place for self awareness and understanding why you’re afraid of these things in, in, in 2023 in today’s modern society.
[00:10:54] Stéphanie Bergot: Totally, and sometimes it’s very much because it’s like that. Often I talk with Client, friends, colleagues, employees, and we’re talking about something and they’re like, I’m very scared of applying on that new job. Okay, why? Maybe I won’t get it. Okay, but the situation you’re in at the moment, you don’t have it.
Okay, so if you apply, you get a chance to have it. If you don’t get a chance to have it. So that’s the first thing. The second thing, when you ask them, why would you be scared? And you take a step back and you analyze it and you’re like, yeah, but people make things, means, stuff they don’t. For example, you’re an entrepreneur.
You want to gain money and you want to live out of your practice. And at the beginning, it doesn’t work, that doesn’t mean you’re not good. And so often we make stuff, mean stuff, they don’t like, it’s not because you do money that you’re a real good person. And it’s not because you don’t do money that you’re not a good person.
And it’s not, for example, because your business doesn’t grow as fast as you want, that you’re not good. But. So often we make things mean some stuff about us where it’s not about us. Maybe for example, the example of the job, you apply and you don’t get the job. It might not be because you’re not good enough.
It might be because your profile doesn’t suit exactly what they need or your profile doesn’t suit exactly what they want that job to become. But when you. If you’re not sure about your worth and you apply, maybe it works and maybe it don’ts. And sometimes another thing that people forget about is what is the riskier?
Is it riskier to apply and don’t get it or not to apply and stay exactly where you are wondering if? For example, yeah,
[00:13:12] Michael Pacheco: There’s a classic saying in, in English anyway, that’s if it’s better to regret something you have done than to regret something you have not done. Yeah.
At least you tried.
[00:13:22] Stéphanie Bergot: When Gretzky said that all the shots you didn’t take cannot go in the net.
[00:13:28] Michael Pacheco: You miss 100 percent of the shots that you don’t take. Yeah, exactly. That’s my man right here.
[00:13:34] Stéphanie Bergot: I know you were a fan of Winnie Gretzky. Oh,
[00:13:37] Michael Pacheco: He’s the great one. Of course I am,
[00:13:38] Stéphanie Bergot: but it’s totally that.
And sometimes people send themselves by being scared or, and then I talk to people, they come in my office just to work on their objective and, okay, how come you’re not exactly where you would like to be? . Life and it’s true. Life happens to everyone. I, last time I had the chance to, but unfortunately I didn’t go for it ’cause I was scared or I didn’t I went to the interview, but I was so scared it won’t work that I was a bit shy and not exactly as good as I am normally.
And people live out of fear. A lot too often.
So it’s important to, to reflect on what do I have to lose if I try? And it’s also important, honestly, to other people that have success have tried. And all of them have failed. I love that.
[00:14:37] Michael Pacheco: There’s a concept in the U S military called red team. Are you familiar with red team? So the idea with red team is to.
You basically, you get a team so you’ve got your plan, and then you get a team of people who play devil’s advocate, and they try to attack, they poke holes in the plan, and they try and figure out what’s wrong with the plan. I think there’s another thing that I like to do sometimes that’s similar to that, I’m drawing a parallel here, where if I’ve got a plan, and I feel some hesitation or some sense of fear around it, I’ll flip the frame around and I’ll consider what is the worst possible outcome if I do this, is the right, am I, is the world going to explode?
Am I going to lose my house? Could I lose my family? Could I get sick and die? 99 times out of 99 times, the answer is no to all those things, right? But you have to, but you’re, unless you. Spend the time explaining the logic to yourself. Because the brain’s not going to just figure that out on its own.
But if you take time
[00:15:45] Stéphanie Bergot: And it seems very worst when you haven’t realized, oh, it’s not that bad.
[00:15:52] Michael Pacheco: Yeah. If you take time to run through that exercise and I’ll write it down on a, with a pen and paper and I’ll be like, this is, this could happen. This could happen. This could happen.
This could happen. These are all the terrible things that could happen. And then I’ll read over that list. I’ll be like, this isn’t so bad.
[00:16:05] Stéphanie Bergot: And often what I do with my client, I ask them to do exactly the same if it’s exactly what they’re planning that happened. So you apply to the job and you don’t get it.
What are the worst thing that could happen? You apply to the job and you get it. What are the best thing that could happen? And sometimes just comparing both, you’re like, Oh, that’s not that bad. If I don’t get it, I don’t get it. But if I do get it, it’s going to bring me more joy, more money, often more responsibilities, more.
So you extract the courage to do stuff consciously. Clearly, there’s a lot more positive outcome than negative one.
[00:16:48] Michael Pacheco: I love that. I love that phrase. Extracting courage. You get to, by running through that exercise and not only considering the worst possible outcome, but also considering the best possible outcome, you can look at your opportunity cost for not doing it.
You can look at the potential ROI. And extract the courage to just bleep and do it. I
[00:17:12] Stéphanie Bergot: don’t know if you’ve watched the movie. I bought a zoo with Matt Damon.
[00:17:17] Michael Pacheco: I bought a zoo and I’ve never even heard of that one.
[00:17:19] Stéphanie Bergot: Yeah. It’s a good movie. I love it. But there’s one time in the movie where he talks to his son about it.
His mom. And he’s like 22nd of courage. That’s all it takes. And that sentence, I repeat it again and again to my client, to my friends, to my kids, to 20 seconds of courage. So he’s talking about the fact that he walked by a coffee place and he saw her in the vitrine and he got in and says, I, and now, the story that they’re together and they had kids.
So he’s explaining to his son that all it takes, it’s 20 seconds of courage. And it’s exactly the same. You want to send an email to someone and you’re scared, 20 seconds of courage. You want to go in a meeting and like you go, I don’t know. And Networking event and you’re like, Oh, I should talk to that guy.
He looks very interesting. 20 seconds of courage. You want to step like you want to do bungee. You want to do a parasailing. You want to do 20 seconds of courage when it’s done or when you start the movement. It’s already too late to come back. So all it takes, it’s 20 seconds of courage. And sometimes I do this, I say that to my son, for example, he’s scared of the dark and I’m like 20 seconds of courage.
You just go down the stairs, you open the light and then you’re okay. He’s but he counts 20 seconds of courage and he’s able and it’s the same to cross a bridge where you’re not like very comfortable with height. It’s a, but the 20 seconds of courage, what it brings, it’s. Just enough to do the first steps, because when the first steps is made and you feel like I’m safe, okay, nothing bad happen, then I can take the second one and then the third one and then the fourth one and it’s like with everything else.
If, for example, speaking in public very scares you. Don’t start by an hour of podcast in front of a hundred of people recording it. No don’t put yourself, if you don’t feel like it and you’re too scared, don’t put yourself in situation where you’re going to mess up. Put yourself in a situation where, for example, you’re going to talk with someone new.
For a couple of minutes, and then you’re gonna talk in front of friends and then an anniversary and next time. And then like that, I call it building evidence. You’re building small evidences that you’re safe when you do that. It’s okay when you do that.
[00:20:01] Michael Pacheco: Yeah. So a couple of things they’re building evidence.
I love, I had a coach who had me do that as well. And what I would, he would have me do is anytime. Something good would happen during the day. I had a stack of post it notes and I was supposed to write down my win on the post it notes and put it on the computer monitor. And at the end of the day, there’s evidence of a good day all across the stack and the evidence for doing well.
And 20 seconds of courage. When are you gonna write that book? Title 22nd. That’s a book title, Stephanie, that’s a great book title. . I’m just saying you should
[00:20:37] Stéphanie Bergot: write a book. I don’t know if I need to pay trademark to I bought a Zoo or something. . That’s a good point. And he says 22nd. Insane Courage.
Okay. Yeah.
[00:20:48] Michael Pacheco: Yeah. That’s a, that’s a great book title.
[00:20:50] Stéphanie Bergot: And so often people are like aiming for the top and it’s okay. Like you have to have a vision of where like archery, when you have a, an art and an arrow, if you don’t have any bullseye or yeah. If you don’t have any targets, you might be the best.
Archery at of all time, but nowhere to go. So you need to have a vision of where you want to go, but you have to remember that everyone, it’s step by step that they achieve or accomplish or whatever. So sometimes you make the pressure of becoming that so far from where you feel you are at the moment become.
Like a bullet. No yeah, to your ankle, like when you used to be a prisoner when you yeah, shackles. Yeah. Oh, first time I hear that word shackle or
[00:21:45] Michael Pacheco: ball and chain.
[00:21:47] Stéphanie Bergot: Yeah. So instead of. Making it like the, the place you want to go and what you want to achieve the distance between where you feel you’re at and the distance where you feel you want to go is too large and instead of not taking those steps.
You freeze, for example, but honestly, if we freeze today in five years, we’re going to be exactly at the same place, but with a lot more anxiety because we were like, geez, I’m still there. I haven’t. Okay. So why don’t you take the first step? That’s one of the first thing when I started working with someone, what’s the first step?
Yeah. I don’t know. I’m so scared. What’s the first step? Sometimes the first step is only to close your eyes and envision where you want to be. Yeah.
[00:22:37] Michael Pacheco: And what’s the worst that could possibly happen if you close your eyes and just think about where you want to be? Literally nothing. You’re good. Totally.
Totally safe thing to
[00:22:46] Stéphanie Bergot: do. When I When I studied in management, I had a class in entrepreneurship, which now I work a lot in those fields, but the teacher was super cool. And one of the things he asked that changed a lot of my mind at that time, it was like, what are you ready to lose? Yeah. And what are you not ready to lose?
Okay. So at that time I wasn’t ready to lose my family, my husband, my kids, but all the material stuff for me, I was okay losing like my house. I was okay losing money. I was okay losing time. Some of my co workers. We’re a bit older, we’re in a different situation, as arrived to Canada a couple of months prior, a year prior, and they were not ready to lose other stuff.
As long as you know what you’re not ready to lose, you’re a lot freer to choose which moves you’re gonna do. Because when you do the, what’s the worst that can happen, if the worst is losing your home, and that’s A non negotiable, you don’t want to go there and the chance are that it’s probably I don’t know, 50 50 or even 30 70, but for you it’s too much, it’s not your path, you’re going to go another way, but not, don’t try convincing you to do stuff that you feel it.
are not right. But be aware that sometimes what your brain’s telling you is not totally true. Because he’s there to make sure you stay safe. But staying safe might mean staying on your couch doing nothing. So just make sure that you’re aware that sometimes it’s not very dangerous and that you can go.
From point A to point B then point C and like I see the guitar behind you and everything and we’ve talked about it last time after the podcast, but to become a real good musician. And I say that so often to my client. Why do we think? That becoming an entrepreneur, for example, is supposed to come naturally.
What in life have you experienced to be easy at first? Some people have talent, for real. Some people naturally have talent. Perfect. If you want to become a real good musician, You need to put your art into it. You won’t need to work on it. You need to make mistakes and start again and start again.
So now you’re confident that when you play that song, you know how to, cause you’ve been practicing it for sometimes a hundred times, even more thousands of hours when you get to see. So it’s exactly the same thing. You’re comparing yourself to amazing people. That I’ve been working on those skills or taking small steps and action for, you don’t know, many years and make it means that you’re not good enough.
It’s sure. I touched one of your guitar. I’m sure I’m going to tell myself I’m not good. I’m not a musician. I haven’t played. I’m not able to read music. It’s not one of my skills. And my sisters are very good at it for all of us. Honestly, doing gymnastics, I used to be a gymnast. I do flips and people are like, I don’t know how that works.
I totally know blinding my eyes. I know where every part of my body is because in gymnastics, if you lose the sight, you still need to land. Yeah. You’re able to do many things, but you get to become confident at it when you’ve done it a couple of times. So where in the professional world do you think that you’re supposed to be confident and to be good at something you haven’t done yet?
[00:26:52] Michael Pacheco: Yeah, and I think That’s a great point. I think the, a really good question to ask yourself as you go into any endeavor, whether it’s entrepreneurship or learning how to play guitar is it reasonable for me to be good at this? At just from the get go, having never done it before. And the answer to that is probably no, it’s probably unreasonable that you would be good at it if you’ve never done it before.
Is it reasonable for me to stink at this having never done it before? Yeah, I’m probably going to stink. I’m probably going to suck. It’s going to sound like crap. The first time I play guitar. That if you like, just expect that, then it doesn’t. Maybe it’s not that. That takes some of the fear away because it’s logical that you would be bad at something at first.
And
[00:27:40] Stéphanie Bergot: also remember, ’cause some high achieving people don’t like to be in situation where they might fail. Uhhuh, or might not good. Be good at first. Uhhuh if you don’t go. You’re going to want to do something new one day, it might not be guitar. Cause you’re like, wow, nevermind. It’s not that useful. Like for example, but if you never try stuff, even if you’re a high achieving person, if you never try stuff that take you out of your comfort zone, that bring you like a bit of chill and you’re not courageous.
If you keep in your track all the time, you’re not evolving as you could, what are you leaving on the table? One of my mentor in Quebec says sometimes, and it hit me like 10 years ago when I heard that, he was like, I When I die come in the paradise door and talking with St. Pierre, for example, and he’s okay, so Michael, you check the music thing.
You were very good at it when and the tour and everything. Okay, you check the podcast thing. Oh, you were very good at it. And the father thing and the husband thing. And he continues reading without checking. He’s and so you’re asking him. What did you what didn’t you read? Oh, those are all the things you were able to do and you didn’t do.
And that hit me like hell. I was like, okay, what am I leaving on a table when I, the easiest spot? Yeah. What am I not doing? What, so I’m
[00:29:22] Michael Pacheco: missing out on, right? What am I missing out on? Cause we only, we’re only here once. Sure. You’re only here once people make the best of it. Don’t miss
[00:29:30] Stéphanie Bergot: out on stuff.
And I want the thing I want is being impactful and helping others. So I’m leaving stuff on the table. I could even more cause I’m shy, scared, insecure whatever. I’m like. What am I leaving on the table? And that, when I work with my client, it’s super fun because sometimes they have the impression, because, some people are very easily dreaming easily and wanting stuff more, but some people are very anxious because they don’t know what else do they want.
And that’s also a truth. If you are today, evaluating every single sphere of your life, for example, and you have the impression that you’re 10 out of 10. And fatherhood, and family time, and work, and money, and what’s next? If you’re 10 out of 10 on everything, you could die tomorrow, and like it’s okay, you’ve achieved everything.
But sometimes you’ve been so scared of moving in paths you were not familiar with, that you stop the dreaming of other stuff you don’t have, yet. And people arrive in my office and they’re like, I don’t know. I feel empty. I don’t know. I don’t have the drive to do things or things. Okay. So what do you like?
I don’t know. So instead of sometimes there, I have high achievers that come and they’re like, it doesn’t go fast enough. I’m like, Calm yourself, you can’t be good at everything at first, give you a chance, but each time you do those learnings on stuff you don’t know yet, you open new doors in your brain, you add diversity, you, uh, nourish your life and all the time you don’t, it’s shutting the lights and no, that seems too difficult.
Guitar for me won’t be not, and nobody likes to be very bad at something. But all the one that does can become good.
[00:31:47] Michael Pacheco: And I think it’s easier to be bad at something if you begin with the expectation of being bad. Like I said, like it’s reasonable to stink at something the first time you do it.
And it’s reasonable to expect that you will improve the more you practice.
[00:32:04] Stéphanie Bergot: And one of the questions I ask myself and I, um, talk about often Is it reasonable or not? Sometimes you’re so bad or you’re so good at hiding yourself that you will say, no, it’s not reasonable because I do everything and I achieve everything.
And okay. So if your husband come to you and say, I’m going to try guitar, I’m sure. I will be good, but I’m very scared. Will you your husband, your best friend, your kids, do you think that if someone comes to you saying, yeah, I never done that, but I’m going to start and I’m going to be, like, amazing at it first time, and I’m a bit scared it won’t be the case, you will tell them, sure, do it for the first time and you’ll be the best.
No. So sometimes we’re not very accurate about us. Yeah, so I use, you said like legitimate, but I use normal, not normal. Is it normal? Uhhuh . That per and normal, not normal works for a lot of things. It works for anxiety, it works for emotion. Is it normal? You’re sad ’cause your best friend left for another con, another country is it?
’cause sometimes people feel that it, they’re not. Totally seen when they feel some stuff and they’re like, Oh my God, I, geez, I’m still sad. I had that conversation about grief with one of my clients last week. And I was like, there’s no time for grieving. Nobody else can tell you, Oh, now it’s been six months.
You should come over it. That’s not true. So you’re allowed to feel whatever you feel for as long as you still live and we’re not talking about depression. We’re not talking, we’re talking only about normal, not normal. When you lose someone special for you, it’s normal. So and if your kids come and a friend changed school, you will say it’s normal for them to be sad.
Is it for you as well? So sometimes we’re not the best critic of our. Life. Sure. Because we’re sometimes very tough on ourselves and we think that we should be or shouldn’t be some stuff.
[00:34:25] Michael Pacheco: And I think in any situation, right? It’s difficult in any situation. It’s, if you’re heavily involved and enmeshed in a situation, it’s difficult to see the storm outside of the eye of the tornado.
Or it’s difficult to tell the forest from the trees when you’re in the forest. Totally. Not to mix metaphors.
[00:34:46] Stéphanie Bergot: No, but you’re right. And sometimes people don’t know about that. They’re like, for example, I was talking to a friend this week and I was like, I’m helping. Hundreds and hundreds of entrepreneur for example, looking at their business model and making change, and I will need help to make sure that my business model is the one I really want.
Why? Because you’re so into it that sometimes when you have questions, you’re not able to separate. What is right now and what you expected to be so having like in my case, I think coach friends that are into business. It’s perfect. We go for lunch. We talk about it and I see clearly. Much more clearly, what should be the next step?
It’s exactly the same for everything. Yeah.
[00:35:41] Michael Pacheco: Yeah. At what point does this kind of coaching? So we’ve been talking for the most of this podcast, we’ve been talking about the idea of anxiety, right? At what point does the, because this is. And then that’s the focus, of this podcast and having you on a second time is what’s new since the last time we talked and you’ve been working with with a mentor, a coach on this anxiety stuff.
At what point does this kind of coaching become therapy? Is there some, I feel like there’s crossover there, right? With someone sits on your couch and they’re like, I feel empty. Help me. You know what I mean? Like
[00:36:16] Stéphanie Bergot: totally. We are not with me. We’re not in therapy because the difference, like for example the biggest difference and depending on the therapist you’re working with, it depends, but I’m not working on the past.
I’m working on the effect. That those choices you’ve made or not made, I’ve brought today. So today you come to me and you’re like, I feel empty. Okay. So why is it a problem? I don’t feel fulfilled. Perfect. What would you like different? I don’t know. Okay. Perfect. Is there, and one of the first thing I do with all my clients when I don’t know them, because most of them I work for a long time with them.
Is doing what we call a will of life. So the One out of ten, where are you in your family life, in your money life, in your professional life, in your contribution, in your we choose, normally, seven, eight, or nine big family of sports, for example, health family, couples whatever. And out of ten, you choose where you’re at.
It gives me An overview of, okay, so you feel empty, but still, you’re 9 out of 10 and in your marriage. Perfect. You’re 8. 5 out of 10 with family. Yes, I feel that we’re having enough time and it’s great time and we’re having fun. Okay, perfect. Oh, money, we’re at 6 Yes, but the job doesn’t work that much and the money doesn’t come as I want it.
Perfect. Sports, two out of ten. Okay, so it doesn’t mean that will be the priority, but if you’re not taking care of yourself, of your health, of your time, of your, and also don’t love the job you’re doing and don’t get the money you would like to, we have a situation and sometimes we’re not working directly on the job, for example, because sometimes we need to figure out some stuff, you need to have a plan, you need to reflect on what you want and if you don’t know what you want, but you know that what you have is not what you want.
Before just asking you to move or asking yourself to move, you need to know where you want to move. It’s the same thing as the the archery earlier. So sometimes we do start by, for example, okay, so starting next week, you’re going to move. Half an hour, every two days, you’re going to go for a walk. Or you’re going to go biking.
Perfect. You don’t know where you want to do. Perfect. Read some offers, job offers and what it feels like. That feels good. All that. Nah, I wouldn’t like to be calling people for money. Okay. Perfect. So we know that doesn’t work. And I’m talking about job, but it could be like, I have one of my clients.
She’s so funny. She’s she felt that other than work, nothing else was worth it. So we’ve worked on that and I was like, it’s sure you’re working, taking care of the kid, working, taking care of the kid, working, taking care of the kid. So what do you love? I don’t know. What did you love when the kids weren’t there?
When I was younger, I liked drawing. I like painting. Perfect. You’re gonna go in a painting class. Okay. So she went back and she was like, nah. I liked it, but not that much. Okay, perfect. So we’re gonna try new activities. Try something else. Yeah, she was like, so she texted me. She was like, we went shooting how do you call this skeet shooting.
Yeah. She’s it’s not gonna, yeah, it’s not gonna be my new passion. I’m like, perfect. You tried something else. You don’t like it? Perfect. You’re gonna try something else. And she started doing Krav Maga, which is a martial arts and she liked it. I was like, perfect. That doesn’t bring you the job you want, but that brings your brain into a new, disposition of seeing the stuff you would love and being able to achieve new stuff and try new stuff.
Perfect. Sometimes it’s not hitting the wall that you’ll find exactly what you want. It’s trying another way. So it’s not therapy, because Therapy for me is often like, when I was younger, I did that. Sure. But sometimes the infos are necessary to understand where you’re here and you don’t want to stay there and go back here if you don’t move.
And it goes back to what we were saying. What’s the worst about staying here? And what’s the worst? About moving forward, even if it’s in a direction, for now, not that clear. And most of the time, it’s worth staying where you are, because you feel stuck, because you feel uncomfortable, because you don’t like something.
Yes. And action is always the predictor. Success, whatever success means for you, one step at a time. And sometimes one very small step at a time and being comfortable of doing two, two front steps and five backwards steps, and then it’s okay. As long as you’re moving and learning to be nice with yourself, because sometimes we’re very hard on us.
So all of this helps and. One thing that’s very important when you’re a good coach, you bring autonomy and not the contrary. You don’t want people to be like, you don’t want to lead them. Do that, do this, try this, try that because they’re not building confidence that they’re able to find on their own.
Take care of their themselves and everything. So when people come to me, I’m not like I’m not the one doing the path they are choosing. And like that, we, as you were saying earlier, create evidence that we’re able to. So you tried that. Very cool. How was it? I hated it. Perfect. Now you know you don’t like that.
Try something else. Try something else.
[00:42:58] Michael Pacheco: Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. I think especially, it’s pretty typical in with entrepreneurs, right? That they dive headfirst into the business, to the, at the expense of everything else in their life sometimes. And they forget about, just little things they enjoy, like playing guitar or cooking or whatever it is, gymnastics, right?
Whatever it is, that, that kind of feeds the soul a little bit.
[00:43:24] Stéphanie Bergot: Totally. And I see that a lot with women, men also, but there’s something about like giving a lot and being there. And so sometimes the. Time management is not easy with job, business, kids so the first thing they skip is time for them.
Or what I see also is, and maybe it’s the same everywhere, but here you’re about 16, 17 when you gotta choose a path. Huh. Like for studies and everything. So it’s not realistic to think that at 16 or 17 you really know first yourself and second when you want to do and achieve and whatever. So sometimes it’s big dreams but you don’t know how to fulfill them.
So you’re. Listening to people around that might be teachers that think that you’re very good in math and you should do math and sometimes it’s parents and sometimes it’s so I get people around their 40s that did follow the path drawn for them. So they did go in university. They did do like the law studies because their dad were lawyer or their teacher.
Thought they were good at it and they get to get success and they loved it. Part of it. And then kids come in and marriage and okay. And now the money is good. The job is good. The family is good. Why do I feel like there’s nothing that lights me up? Yeah. Okay. But what do you love passionately about all of this?
So sometimes it’s just to go back. So sometimes it was not the good choice. And when I say the good choice, it’s not that I mean that it wasn’t okay. It’s part of you, but you might be arriving at 40 and saying, you know what? I did study law, but finally, what I really wanted is. And change, but the more you get into something from a lot of year, the more the choice is like difficult and implies a lot of, yeah, especially
[00:45:48] Michael Pacheco: if you’ve got, if you’ve got a, a family and a mortgage and everything like that can.
Throw a wrench into things. I used to I totally get this. I must’ve had probably four or five different careers before I was 35 years old before I settled on entrepreneurship and running my own business, but I remember in my twenties, I was working At McAfee doing computer virus research working in a cubicle and there was a guy who, and I loved it at the time you couldn’t pay me to do it now, but at the time it was exactly what I wanted to be doing.
And I loved it. And I remember there was a guy who I worked with who was in his early 40s, probably about my age now, 42, 43, and he Was he had given his notice, his two weeks notice and he was quitting. He was going to go back to university and do psychology. And I thought that was the, at, at 23 or however old I was, I thought that was the weirdest thing.
I was like, why?
[00:46:44] Stéphanie Bergot: And now.
[00:46:46] Michael Pacheco: 20 years later, it’s oh yeah, okay. That totally makes sense.
[00:46:50] Stéphanie Bergot: And it’s very courageous. Yeah. Sometimes, to go back to anxiety, sometimes, there’s something inside. For years that you’re like, if I would have done a different choice, I would have go in psychology.
If I would have, and then it piled up and then you’re like, I would have really loved that. Okay. But you’re not moving for many reasons because it’s not the right time because you have the kids because they’re young because whatever, because you don’t feel it’s a good idea because you’re scared of the 10 years studies that comes with it or whatever.
But one day. It feels like an evidence and you’re like, I, that’s really what I want to do. So you have two choice or you still change your mind and say, no, it will be too difficult. And then you’re going to go back. The mentor I was talking about earlier talks about the why, when you get to the why here, you need to do a choice.
It’s the anxious place because you need to choose. A path, the right path is the one you choose and you add new stuff. Like for example, okay, no, I’m not going to go in psychology cause it’s very hard, but I’m going to wonder if I can go and work in human resources, for example, like that, I’m going to work more with humans.
So you take the right path. And then if you continue, you take the right path, then the right path, then the right path, then the right path. And two days, two weeks, two months, two years after. You’re still at the same place where you’re wondering if it could be the good thing to go. And if you take the left path, it’s for example, the psychology path, you only know about the first steps and it’s very anxious.
Okay, so I’m not sure, but I feel like it’s the good thing to do, but you only see the first steps. And then the third step, maybe your brain’s going to tell you, you shouldn’t have done that. It’s very difficult. And he’s going to try to bring you back to security. And you’re like no I’ve dreamed of that for years.
So now I’m going to go that path. And then you continue. And the anxiety goes down much more down. Then here, where it goes down until it comes back, it goes up again, and it goes up again, and it goes up again. And we were talking about burnout, and it’s one of the reasons is when you know you’re trying to avoid something you’re too scared of taking, and then you’re like Because changing job, changing, go back to university having kids later on in life, having, there’s many things that are scary, but if you continue to push it aside, it comes back.
Huh. But if you take the first steps. Those two, three, four, five steps are very difficult because you have to be like very focused on that’s a shitty idea, but it’s gonna be my way. And then anxiety goes down because you know that you are on the right path because you are achieving whatever you felt was your calling.
[00:50:00] Michael Pacheco: Yeah, take the first step. What’s the worst that could happen?
[00:50:03] Stéphanie Bergot: Yes. And then take the second one and ask yourself again, what’s the worst that could happen? And then the third, that’s super fun. I love it.
[00:50:12] Michael Pacheco: I love it. Stephanie, again, this is a fantastic conversation. I can’t believe we’ve already, it’s already three o’clock.
Let’s see where real quick, where can our viewers and listeners connect with you
[00:50:24] Stéphanie Bergot: online? Stephanie Bergo on Facebook, or on Instagram, or on LinkedIn, and you’ll find everything else with my names, and on your show, there’s two episodes.
[00:50:37] Michael Pacheco: Awesome. Awesome. And we’ll have, of course, yeah, we’ll have links to all of that on the show notes page for this.
GoSh, I’ve, Stephanie, honestly, I feel like we could probably keep going for another two hours, but
[00:50:48] Stéphanie Bergot: I’m going to invite you on my podcast. People can find me as well on Trouve ta place, find your place. It’s a bilingual podcast, French and English. Clearly, we’re going to speak in English when Michael’s going to come on it, but you’ll be able to find another conversation of you and I on that, too.
I think, yeah,
[00:51:10] Michael Pacheco: The most French I know is probably just a couple swears that I think I learned from, Old Patrick Waugh interviews from the nineties.
[00:51:16] Stéphanie Bergot: Don’t use them. Yeah. He wasn’t very polite.
[00:51:20] Michael Pacheco: He’s got a, he’s got a quick temper. Yes. Awesome. Stephanie Burgo, thank you so much for joining us once again on the remarkable coach podcast.
I’m definitely going to be on your podcast soon. And then I, we have to keep this conversation going. So I’ll invite you back again in the next, in another six months. It’ll be great. To our listeners and viewers. You guys are always fantastic. Thank you so much for being a part of this as well.
And we’ll see you guys next time. Take care.
