[00:00:00] Michael Pacheco: Hello everybody. And welcome to another episode of the remarkable coach podcast. As always, I’m your host, Michael Pacheco. And today with me, I have the dulcet tones of Tom Henshaw. Tom has been coaching senior corporate leaders. For more than 30 years, he’s known for his work with disruptive executives and for helping people achieve the look and sound of leaders, which is also the name of his podcast, which has been airing since 2008 Tom Henschel, welcome to the remarkable coach, which has not been airing since 2008.
[00:00:33] Tom Henschel: It is nice to see you again. Thank you for having
[00:00:35] Michael Pacheco: me back. Yes. Yes. This is a, I forgot to mention that. Of course, this is a. A standing ovation, a a comeback, if you will. Tom’s second appearance on the remarkable coaches. First appearance, I believe was December of 2021, episode number 41. If you’re listening or watching this and you haven’t had a chance to listen to that episode, I strongly recommend you go back and listen to some of those nuggets of gold that Tom dropped back then, and then.
And then
[00:01:05] Tom Henschel: Here we are. Let’s do it again.
[00:01:06] Michael Pacheco: Tom, for those of our listeners who have not had a chance to listen to the first episode, why don’t you just tell us a little bit about yourself and what you do in
[00:01:15] Tom Henschel: your own words? Sure. Thanks. I run a company called Essential Communications and we’re an executive development firm.
I do primarily executive coaching. Often I’m asked to do, as you said, the look and sound of leadership, executive presence, polish people up. The other thing that I do is I do a lot of teamwork because The people that I am coaching often say, Hey, will you do my offsite? So I also get to do a lot of that.
And from my podcast, I talk to a lot of my listeners and that’s great too. So that’s what I’m doing.
[00:01:46] Michael Pacheco: I love it. I love it. So who are your typical clients nowadays?
[00:01:49] Tom Henschel: That’s changed since last we talked. There we
[00:01:51] Michael Pacheco: go. That’s a good place to
[00:01:52] Tom Henschel: start then. Yeah. Yeah. So when you and I talked in December 2021, I would have said my target client is corporate executive vice presidents and above fortune 500.
Yeah. And for way more than a decade, that was my client during the pandemic, things shifted. And I found at least with my clients that the time and resource allocation for executive development really shrank because people were focused on so many other things. And so I just didn’t get a lot of new coaching work.
It’s not like anybody fired me, I finished. My clients, I didn’t have new ones coming in and the listeners to my podcast came really just man, they just came pouring in because everybody was wanting so much help. So my clientele has shifted more now what I call private coaching and the corporate coaching is, I would say.
35 to 40 percent of my business where it used to be 80%.
[00:02:57] Michael Pacheco: Interesting. Interesting. Tell me about the private coaching. What does that look like? How is that different than the executive coaching? So
[00:03:04] Tom Henschel: somebody reaches out to me and says, Hey, can we coach? So we get on a call and that’s a free call, where we talk to each other and what do you want out of coaching?
Blah, blah, blah. If we both want to go forward, it’s really simple. I’m going to tell you, I’m going to be completely straight with you, which is I charge people currently 1200 us dollars. For four one hour sessions. That’s it. And they can use them whenever they want. They can use them in a week. They can use them over the course of six years.
I don’t care. They can set their own goals. I don’t talk to their boss. We don’t do assessments. It’s just four hours. That’s it. And people, I have people who… For example, I have a leader at at Amazon, she’s been working with me for probably five years that way. Okay,
[00:03:48] Michael Pacheco: and she’s a self selected client then?
She wasn’t like,
[00:03:51] Tom Henschel: okay, interesting. Yes, exactly. And yeah, she found me and she’s just never stopped. Yeah. Love it.
[00:04:00] Michael Pacheco: Yeah, me too. What sort of are you coaching, so these private clients that are self selected versus, maybe a corporate client where, you know, maybe someone in, in, in the C suite sees that, a director needs some help with their for this, a self selected private client, what sorts of things are they coming to you for specifically?
[00:04:18] Tom Henschel: Wow. It’s all over the map, partly because the people that come to me are all over the map. People, first off globally, cause podcasts are, have no boundaries. People who are like that woman at Amazon, she’s already a senior leader, right? I have an assistant to a pastor of a small church in Texas.
And she wanted some help because she was feeling timid and she wanted to speak up and I was just like that’s Great, I love helping that woman and having conversations with her and she’s terrific people come either I find but with two things one is they want a style thing like I’d like to have a bigger voice I’m having trouble holding my own in a meeting kind of thing.
That’s a style thing. Huh, or they have a career thing I want to get promoted or I’m having trouble managing my boss or something like that. Those are the two kinds of big categories that people reach out to me about through the podcast.
[00:05:15] Michael Pacheco: Interesting. Yeah. Very cool. Very cool. What what, where do you get the, these private clients?
How are they finding you? How are you marketing your services these days?
[00:05:26] Tom Henschel: Oh, it’s, I think it’s 99 percent through the podcast every now and then I just had someone come to me. By the way, I love this story. I volunteer with a group called Women’s Impact Alliance. I’ve been coaching for them for, I have years and years.
I coached a young woman who was in Vietnam at the time. She’s an American national working in Vietnam. And I’m donating my time to her. I’m volunteering for her, and we really had a great connection. Made a big difference for her. Years later, her husband Who’s now an executive in Colorado reached out to me, said, Hey, my wife always talks so highly about you, I’d love your album.
And I’m like, that’s pretty rare, right? That is not the norm, but it was it was a great story. It was sweet, but in general, Michael, it, I never expected this, I never expected to get work through my podcast. Huh. My podcast came to life for a different reason. But it certainly has become the feeder for that part of my business.
[00:06:27] Michael Pacheco: Yeah. Yeah. You were saying you started the podcast back in 2008, just for fun. And you’re doing it just once a
[00:06:33] Tom Henschel: month. Yeah, because I have another job, so getting my show up once a month, that’s part of my work month, but it takes a month. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
[00:06:44] Michael Pacheco: Cool. Cool. When did what was the, when was the tipping point where you really started to see work coming in through, from specifically from the podcast?
[00:06:54] Tom Henschel: Ooh, I would say that started really late. Like maybe 2000. 18 or so where it felt like not just random one offs, I’ve always had random one offs, but where suddenly there was like, Oh, this looks like a trend. Like I’m going to have to make a room on my calendar for this. I think it would say 2018, but then really when the pandemic hit, man, oh man, it just exploded.
It really changed.
[00:07:18] Michael Pacheco: Yeah. So a decade in that’s commitment.
[00:07:21] Tom Henschel: And also, by the way, I’ve never, because the podcast doesn’t exist. I don’t think of the podcast as a feeder. That’s not my thought about it. I’ve never gone on the air and asked for work. Sure. I’ve never, so the fact that it took 10 years, it’s I felt like I earned it.
It was okay with me. It was fine.
[00:07:39] Michael Pacheco: Yeah. No, that’s great. And in fact, I’ll use this opportunity to to pitch another podcast that I host called the authority’s edge with strategic advisor board. And that is a podcast where I talk very specifically about how authority and trust give businesses. It gives businesses an edge in business because it’s this new style of content marketing where you’re not really marketing, right?
You’re creating content and that content is delivering value and that’s building this trust. It’s building authority. And when someone is ready to work with you. There’s no sales process anymore. It’s just good timing. And they come to you and they say, Hey like you just said, right? I need your help.
I’ve I’ve heard your podcast. I know who you are. I trust you. I believe that you know what you’re talking about. I think you can help me. Let’s
[00:08:31] Tom Henschel: go. Yes. Boy, the first of that podcast of yours sounds fantastic. And I’m really interested and I will find it. And I thought of exactly what you said. I thought of that just the other day.
I had a, Paul with a guy who reached out to me through the podcast, Hey, I’d like to talk to you about coaching. And I could tell literally in the first 30 seconds that we started our zoom call to talk about what we might talk about during coaching. I could tell he was sold. Yeah. He was all in. I didn’t have to do anything and I, and that’s a really, my goodness, it’s such a luxury to start there, but it takes
[00:09:07] Michael Pacheco: 10
years, right?
[00:09:09] Tom Henschel: It takes whatever it takes to build the trust.
[00:09:11] Michael Pacheco: Sure. Yeah, but in the end, I believe it’s a it’s a great way. It’s I believe it’s the best way for coaches. And consultants to do marketing because it’s such coaching and consulting. It’s coaching specifically. We’ll stick with coaching.
It’s such a personal thing, right? It’s very subjective. There’s a lot of trust involved between a coach and a coachee. And you have to trust the other person. And there has to be some chemistry there.
[00:09:41] Tom Henschel: I love audio. I have always loved audio. If I have a choice between listening to music or listening to spoken word, I’ll listen to spoken word. That’s, so I’m into language and hearing people and I love wearing headsets and I love having someone’s voice in my ear. I really do. So I am aware a lot of the times when I coach someone that I don’t know, like when I get a corporate gig and we just met each other and We’re getting started.
I’m aware that I in my head have something that I think about as earning the right to coach you and sometimes it’s four or five sessions before I feel like I’ve earned the right because building trust is slippery, right? With people who listen to the podcast, I’ve been in their ears in such an intimate way.
They think they know me. Yeah, a hundred percent. And they’re calling cause they do trust me. And I think Oh my gosh, exactly what you said. I’m so grateful for having been in their ears. Yeah. Yeah. That’s a great way to mark it. That’s
[00:10:41] Michael Pacheco: fantastic. Yeah. Especially for those who are bad at sales because it bypasses the sales process.
[00:10:48] Tom Henschel: That’s interesting. Yeah. Yeah. I suppose that’s true.
[00:10:51] Michael Pacheco: Yeah. What what is a typical engagement with you look like these days? Has that changed at all?
[00:10:56] Tom Henschel: No, on the corporate side. No. So you know what the private side looks like. So the coaching side usually starts with the 360 usually starts with me talking to the boss, then the boss, the person I’m coaching, and I will all talk.
And this is all in the interest of goal setting. So as a corporate coach, To me, the biggest way that I can screw up an engagement is to not have clear goals. I don’t have clear goals. The coaching is not going to go well. It’s just not because it’s corporate. There’s pressure on people are watching. So anyway, three 60 meeting with the boss alignment meeting with the three of us and then basically 12 sessions, which are anywhere from 90 minutes to three hours to whatever, I don’t know.
Depends on what’s needed. And then we meet with the boss on the way out. And that’s it. Pretty straightforward engagement. Yeah, pretty straightforward. Yeah. Hasn’t changed that much. Although as I said to someone recently, I have done this so many different ways. I could slice and dice this a lot of different ways for you if you wanted, we can make things more, easier, simpler, harder, more complex, deeper whatever.
But yeah, that’s the basic structure, and I don’t find that I’m outside the norm with my colleagues. Yeah. Most of my colleagues are doing something pretty similar to that. Yeah.
[00:12:11] Michael Pacheco: Don’t you find it? It sounds, yeah, that sounds about right. Yeah. Yeah. There’s, what are they, what’s the silly phrase?
There’s a hundred ways to skin a cat.
[00:12:20] Tom Henschel: No, but yes, I agree. Yeah.
[00:12:22] Michael Pacheco: There’s different, I think there’s different tactics and different roads that you can take to, to get somewhere, but ultimately a lot of, leadership coaching, executive coaching, that sort of thing is. Pretty much going to be heading down the same or heading to the same destination.
It’s just depending on which road you take to get there. I think that’s the analogy I’m looking for. Maybe,
[00:12:43] Tom Henschel: I subcontract with colleagues of mine who run their own coaching companies and And they all have different prescriptions for how they like their coaching done. They want the 360 done at this time instead of that time.
So there’s, a million variations. And it’s all still good corporate coaching. Yeah.
[00:13:00] Michael Pacheco: You’ve you’ve mentioned the goals a few times. Since we’ve been talking today, what is your, what’s your strategy, what’s your not strategy, what’s your tactics there?
How do you construct goals for your clients? Do you have a specific method that you use?
[00:13:15] Tom Henschel: I have a specific question I ask. And so I will ask this of the boss, maybe the HR person, certainly the person I’m coaching. And the question is if I’m coaching you, Michael, I would say, so Michael, if the coaching were a fantastic success, what would be different?
And that’s the conversation now where out of whatever you say, whether you’re the boss or the person, that’s the conversation that’s going to get us starting to listen for goals. What are we trying to make different? She would get more of her ideas up to the senior level. okAy. So there’s all kinds of stuff in that, right?
Influence and presence, and right? So that’s my kind of method for finding goals is starting with that question. I like
[00:14:01] Michael Pacheco: that. It’s important. You’re essentially saying, what result do you want out of this? But your phrasing of that question I think that’s super important. The way you’re framing the question in such a way that it becomes Easy to answer.
A question like, what result do you want? It’s not a good way to phrase that question.
[00:14:20] Tom Henschel: I also find it’s an evocative question. It’s not an, it’s not a question people are anticipating. So when I say what would be different, they often actually think, they actually reflect. Yeah. I go, that’s a good question.
And by the way, I’ve been refining that question for a long time. Took me a long time. I didn’t,
[00:14:36] Michael Pacheco: Yeah that, that word question forces you right to reflect a little bit because at that point you’re thinking about a comparison, what would be different? So you’ve got to think about what things are like right now or what they’ve been like in the past and what’s going to change.
[00:14:52] Tom Henschel: That’s a really good point because many times people talk about the irritant. Huh. Okay. Yeah. She just, she’s not cooperative. She doesn’t know when to pass the ball in a meeting, right? They start with the irritant. Which is not necessarily what the goal is going to be, but it’s good to know what the irritant
[00:15:07] Michael Pacheco: is.
Is Huh. Yeah, that’s interesting. Yeah, because that makes a lot of sense as well, because often times people will, oftentimes I think a coaching engagement will begin because of some irritant, whether that’s a person or a process or, a specific part of an organization that’s not working out that would be maybe the catalyst, right?
For starting a new coaching engagement, but that’s not necessarily, you, I guess you could start a conversation about goals there, but it’s not the goal itself, right? To just remove the irritant. That’s not all that you want
[00:15:41] Tom Henschel: to do. Oh, yes. Let’s hope not. Yeah. And I find, again, when I started coaching a long time ago, we were almost always asked to save someone who was about to fall off a cliff.
We were like if you guys can’t fix him, he’s going to get fired. And so it was this sense of repair work and, people in jeopardy. And we worked really hard to go, that’s actually not what we’re job, our job is now that I find it’s an easy sell this idea that the goals are there because we’re trying to help you succeed.
You’re not being sent to coaching because you’re failing. You’re being, so the often the idea of what would be different and that idea of helping someone succeed. The goals usually are pretty easy, usually pretty easy. Yeah. And by easy, I just want to say easy to define, not necessarily easy to achieve.
Sorry to interrupt.
[00:16:35] Michael Pacheco: No, not at all. I was just going to say, I think that makes a lot of sense because you want, as a coach, you want to help your clients. You don’t want to just remove the irritant. You want to help your clients actually level up. If all you’re doing is removing the irritant, it’s almost maybe like a smart aunt could do that.
yoU don’t need to hire me to just remove the irritant. Talk to your smart uncle and ask him like, I’m here to, I’m here to help you rise.
[00:17:01] Tom Henschel: Yes, often. Not everybody wants a promotion, but yes, often if nothing else works, going to get better for everyone.
[00:17:10] Michael Pacheco: Yeah. And I didn’t mean rise to say promotion specifically, but rise as in rise to the challenge, be your best self, that, that sort of thing. Yeah.
[00:17:19] Tom Henschel: Yes. Yes. Which again is why just in my experience. When people were quote unquote sent for coaching to be fixed. It doesn’t sound very encouraging to help that person be their best self. Do you know what I mean? It’s really ooh, you’re a problem and we’re going to make you tolerable.
Not very inspiring. No, and people can feel it. But by the way, those people exist. Look, one of the things that I’m known for is dealing with, quote unquote, disruptive executives. Those people exist. Where, look, if we could just get rid of the irritant, it would be really helpful. Because it can be really irritating.
No, there are people in the workplace who are really irritating. It’s changed, by the way, because of Zoom. And people aren’t around each other so many hours of every day. I don’t know if that’s a good thing or a bad thing, but sometimes the irritant is just softened just because it’s remote.
[00:18:10] Michael Pacheco: Interesting. Interesting. Gosh. Yeah, Tom. What, what else is new in your world? Since we last spoke, it’s been, your pot, your first podcast was released in December of 2021. But I think it’s been about a year and a half since we actually last spoke.
[00:18:25] Tom Henschel: Oh, I think so.
Yeah. So what’s different for me, and I’m going to guess that everybody has their own story about this, but what’s different for me with my clients. It’s talking about return to work.
[00:18:39] Michael Pacheco: Okay. Return to like physical location?
[00:18:42] Tom Henschel: Whatever it’s gonna look like. So I’ll give you two different examples. Cause everybody’s all over the map on this, right?
Everybody is, globally, but certainly my clients are no different. They’re all over the map. So I was working with president of an international bank. He runs the US division. And he said, I come into the office every day. I think everybody should be coming into the office every day.
Everybody’s going to be coming into the office every day. And I thought, this is going to go badly. This is not going to go over well. And and I was like, fine. He’s not asking for my coaching here, but we did have a conversation about it. Yeah. And there is no right answer. I think he’s, I think he’s gonna have a hard sell with his position.
But the point is, everybody’s talking about it. I had an, yeah. Anyway, the remote to work thing, I know it’s changing everything. Hiring, retention, but also it’s changing teams. Teams do not function the way they did three years ago. They just do not. anD we can debate about whether that’s good or bad.
buT they’re just not the same. It’s different. Yeah.
[00:19:49] Michael Pacheco: I’ve read some, I’ve read some literature specifically. So for me, obviously, as a as the owner of Boxer Agency, we’re a creative media marketing company. And I’ve, I have read some literature specifically on, Creative teams that, that says that it’s not creative teams tend to function better in person because there’s an energy
[00:20:13] Tom Henschel: I can imagine.
Yeah. Yeah. Oh, for sure. Yeah. Listen, I think that’s true for yes. Creatives because. Things go very quickly, but just in general, I want to tell you that the times that I have been back in big rooms with groups of people, I am, I feel like celebrating. I’m like, I’m going to work tomorrow with a group of 12, it’s like this, team that’s coming together and I’m glad to be in the room with them, but to be in the room of, 120 people or 250 people, it’s thrilling.
To be back and to get a group moving together, thinking together, doing, having the experience together. It’s just so energizing. And I will confess I have missed it. I really have.
[00:21:00] Michael Pacheco: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I think I have as well. It’s I don’t know. It’s hard to pin down, hard to put into words.
Yeah. But it’s definitely something in the creative process, at least I think that is missing when. your primary, mode of communication is either a chat or A zoom call. Yeah. It’s just, there’s not, it’s not as, I don’t know, spontaneous.
[00:21:25] Tom Henschel: I agree. But listen, one of the challenges with zoom is that zoom doesn’t like it when we talk at the same time.
And part of having a really healthy, creative meeting is everybody’s going to be talking at the same time and that’s great, right? Yeah. But that’s the energy. That’s how people get to places in their thinking. So yeah, zoom is not friendly to support that. Not at all. One of the things.
Thinking about what have I learned? During this time, one of the things that I’ve learned is a really simple trick that has created such productive results. I’d love to share it with you. Please,
[00:22:00] Michael Pacheco: I’m all ears. We’re all ears.
[00:22:02] Tom Henschel: This is really simple. It is to ask the question, ask a question of a group on Zoom and people are going to write their answer.
They might write it in the chat or they might write it on a piece of paper, whatever. But everybody stays on mute for 60 seconds. Huh. 60 seconds, just 60 seconds. And if the question is… One where people actually need to reflect. Everybody kind of starts from the same place. Whereas what I have found, if you just ask the question, one of the extroverts will go first and then another extrovert will chime in and the introverts will never speak.
They’re just not, they were never ready. And either they’re going to stick with their own thoughts and not listen, or they’re going to listen and not stick with their own thoughts, but it’s an unsatisfying experience for them. And they’d end up not participating. And so you end up not hearing so many voices.
This 60 seconds is a fantastic equalizer. I like that. That’s great. And people can use the 60 seconds however they want, but a lot of people, if the ques especially if the question is meaty, people, when you come back after 60 seconds, they’re like wait no. It’s great. It gets people thinking.
It’s nice. It’s helpful.
[00:23:13] Michael Pacheco: That’s great. That’s brilliant. I’m definitely going to try that out. What I’ve been doing, and I’ve got a relatively small team. There’s half a dozen of us. So it’s not like I’ve got a gigantic zoom room full of people, but I will ask a question and then I’ll pick someone to talk first.
And that way, everybody gets a chance to have the opportunity to not be drowned out by the extroverts on the team.
[00:23:38] Tom Henschel: Yeah. And these people too. So you, I can imagine you have some scorecard in your head of how everybody’s doing. Yeah. No.
[00:23:44] Michael Pacheco: Nice. That’s a, it’s a good, I like that.
And then being on mute for 60 seconds specifically, I like that. Cause that, you don’t feel like you’re behind the eight ball stressing out. Like you’ve got a little bit of time to, to think about it and collect yourself and come up with the answer to whatever the question
[00:24:02] Tom Henschel: may be.
So listen, I pulled. I pulled that from an exercise from liberating structures. Has anybody talked to you about liberating structures? Nope. Haven’t heard of it. Oh my God. Okay. There are going to be certain people in your audience who are going to be screaming and cheering because people who know liberating structures are like converts, liberating structures is a free website that is intended to help. Normal people, just every average, averaged everyday person, lead experiences with groups. Okay. And they are so great and simple and get profound results. And one of them is something called One, Two, Four, All, and it starts with one minute of silent writing.
And how transformative that one minute of silent writing is. And I learned it in rooms facilitating and seeing what it did to the group. It was incredible. And then I brought it to the online world and it worked just as well. Cool. So liberating structures, man, if you don’t know it it completely changed me as a facilitator.
I cannot begin to tell you how it changed me as a facilitator. It’s great.
[00:25:10] Michael Pacheco: I love it. I’ll find I’ll find that website for those listening. We’ll definitely add that to the show notes. Oh yeah. That sounds
[00:25:17] Tom Henschel: super cool. It is. And fun. They are fun things to do. Yeah. Yeah. If you want to lead a group.
[00:25:25] Michael Pacheco: Nice. I have a book I bought, I don’t know, five, six, seven years ago called Game Storming. Are you familiar? Have you heard of this one? No. So they’re there. This is another one for facilitating brainstorming sessions in, in, in groups. And it’s just a book. I don’t know if I’ve got it right here.
It might be in the other room. I think it’s in the other room. I’m looking at my bookshelf. But it’s essentially, yeah, it’s just a book of games, that, that, that helped people brainstorm icebreakers, all of
[00:25:54] Tom Henschel: it. Yeah. It’s helpful. Yeah. So great. I’m glad, listen, I feel very lucky that my, one of the things that grew out of my corporate business was this facilitation thing.
I, I’ve learned so much and I’ve loved it and it’s been really meaningful to me. And I’m aware that not every coach that I know every executive coach facilitates, not everyone does. Yeah. For whatever reason. So I’ve just enjoyed the hell out of it and it’s taught me a ton, facilitating a team.
It’s just really a fantastic experience.
[00:26:29] Michael Pacheco: Cool. Very cool. Very cool. Tom gosh, is there, I want to be respectful of your time here. Is there anything else that you’d like to talk about that we haven’t had an opportunity to touch upon yet?
[00:26:41] Tom Henschel: I’d love to extend an invitation if I may.
[00:26:45] Michael Pacheco: Ooh, the plot thickens.
Yeah.
[00:26:47] Tom Henschel: I’m listening. I am, I live in Los Angeles. I’m part of the ICF chapter here in Los Angeles and the ICF chapter has what they call special interest groups. And I lead one on executive coaching six times a year. And they are fun community. Everybody comes as a learner. We have specific topics that we address.
It’s just, and there are people from all over the world who join. It’s really fun. So I would love to invite executive coaches that are listening to the show or people who are interested, come and join it. And I’ll send you a link. Awesome.
[00:27:26] Michael Pacheco: Fantastic. Is, do you, are you going to, is there a specific place where people can go and get it?
Or do you want to send me a link and I can put it on the show notes
[00:27:32] Tom Henschel: page? Oh, if people are interested, it is on the ICF Los Angeles website under events. Just look under special interest groups and you’ll find it. ICF LA, if people need to keep up their credentials, ICF LA offers so many things of which this is one.
So yeah, it’s a great website. ICF LA.
[00:27:52] Michael Pacheco: Fantastic. Awesome. So yeah, so for those listening we will definitely grab that link. I’ll look at the website or I’ll grab it from you, Tom, and we’ll add that to the show notes. And that’s, yeah, that’s fantastic. Thank you so much for that. Tom, where can our listeners and viewers connect with you online?
[00:28:09] Tom Henschel: One is the podcast, which is the look and sound of leadership. And the other is our website where we just have lots and lots of free tools for people. It’s the essential communications website, which is essential calm with two M’s dot com.
[00:28:24] Michael Pacheco: Awesome. And we will include those links on our show notes page as well.
Fantastic, Tom. I think that’s everything,
[00:28:32] Tom Henschel: bud. Listen, I’m so glad to talk to you again. Thank you for having me
[00:28:35] Michael Pacheco: back. Yeah. And thank you so much for taking the time to join me and thank you. Of course, our listeners and viewers, you guys are fantastic. And That’s it. We’ll talk to you guys soon.
