Micheal Pacheco 00:00
All right. Hello, everybody. Once again, welcome to another episode of the remarkable coach podcast. I’m your host, Michael Pacheco. And today with me, I have Michael King. Michael is the founder and CEO of teams dot coach LLC. He’s a highly sought after business and executive leadership coach. He helps business leaders clarify and execute at high levels through his proprietary T AMS team’s methodology to develop measurable business growth and company wide collaboration. Michael Caine, welcome to the podcast.
Michael King 00:32
Thank you so much, Michael, how are you?
Micheal Pacheco 00:35
I’m doing wonderful, man. It’s good to have you here. Thank you so much. I always like to kick off the pod by just inviting our guests to tell us a little bit about yourself, and what got you into coaching?
Michael King 00:48
Absolutely. I tell people this all the time, that’s that you don’t really necessarily choose coaching coaching kind of chooses you. I come from basically about, you know, a couple decades of being being in pastoral ministry, two decades, roughly, being an executive pastor of a large evangelical megachurch type organization multi site. While I was in the, in that space, I had the opportunity to run alongside some pretty high capacity leaders build some pretty powerful things, build great systems and people’s systems, all those things became a little bit more of a bigger influence outside of the reach of the local church that I was actually inside eventually went on an exploration somewhere around 2015 to finish out my master’s degree and in leadership and executive coaching and and started to discover that maybe my biggest impact moments would be the ones that were outside of the of the church and I’m so glad that I had that aha moment. So teams dot coach was born and the next thing you know, we’re we are doing incredibly well in factoring COVID We’ve actually tripled the size of our organization and we get a chance to work of anywhere from Fortune 500 and fortune 50 companies entrepreneurs in the in the business and enterprise space and we do some some stuff as well at church leaders as well but seeing vision come to life like it never has before and healthy teams performing like they never have before has been just an absolute passion of mine. And it’s it’s a blast.
Micheal Pacheco 02:21
I love it brother. I want to clarify for our viewers and listeners teams dot coach is the website right dot coach is the TLD I think it’s probably a top level domain that many people are not familiar with, but it’s basically your.com team’s dot coach.
Michael King 02:37
Yep, that’s right. It’s the name of my company and it’s the name of our domain because we’re fancy like that. That’s a lot of just just just kidding.
Micheal Pacheco 02:46
No, I get it man. We got we got boxer dot agency. So we also fancy like that.
Michael King 02:52
Awesome. We’re twins things except for our names are spelled a little bit differently. But that’s alright.
Micheal Pacheco 02:58
I love it. So the Michael Michael show. So you are a pastor. That’s awesome. I know you were on also you’re on our sister podcast coffee with coaches. And yeah, Kevin there. Did you and Kevin get into that all because I know Kevin for years and years he was he was doing I don’t know if he was I think he was a youth pastor but he was big into the church and into leadership and stuff in there.
Michael King 03:21
As we touched on a lightly but he’s you know, with that with the with the format of that show? It’s it was it was pretty quick. In and out. We talked about my team’s methodology. I think a little bit but but yeah, so not much. Right. And you
Micheal Pacheco 03:33
have a master’s in leadership and executive coaching. I was unaware that that is a degree that you could that someone could get.
Michael King 03:42
True story. Yeah, so I graduated from Bellevue University, with my degree in organizational leadership and executive coaching. And I didn’t necessarily, I didn’t necessarily know, like, I went back to school to get my degree in organizational leadership, because I was experiencing some pain points within within the church and within the organizations that I was serving to where I thought, maybe I might be going a little bit crazy here. And I needed some more tools in my toolbox just to help me, you know, get through a season of leadership. So I went back to finish finishing up my master’s. And the last year, I was I was ahead of where I needed to be at. And so I had some options as far as some different things I could take. And sure enough, I had some great conversations with some people there. And they offered a master’s in executive coaching. And I’m like, You know what, I think I’m already doing this. And so I think I’m gonna go and give this a shot and see what happens. And I’m so glad that I did. It was it was a brilliant experience for me.
Micheal Pacheco 04:39
That’s awesome. All right. Yeah, that’s like, I mean, I feel like a lot of coaches will get like, you know, an ICF certification or something like that. But probably my guess is that wouldn’t quite compare to a four year focused degree on executive coaching.
Michael King 04:53
Yeah, my thing was, is that is it’s a little bit of a pet. It’s kind of a small pet peeve. And so I don’t mean to offend any listeners or anything like that, but what I found was that in intellect and pastoral world, and it were even in leadership world, what I keep on finding, as I’m speaking at conferences, and traveling and all this, all these other things, that what ends up happening quite a few times as if somebody transitions away from, from a career in which they’ve already had a platform built, they might be a high level charismatic leader, they might be a very good presenter or a good communicator, that doesn’t necessarily mean that you’re a coach, like, this is a very, very specific credential to science and practice, that takes a lot of work. And, and so I actually take my education and my credentialing, in pedigree very seriously. And so that’s why it’s like, it is different, it’s different than just, you know, having a having a big personality and in a great, charismatic nature to call yourself a coach.
Micheal Pacheco 05:55
Let’s, let’s lean into that for a moment. What makes a coach?
Michael King 06:02
Well, you know, there’s, there’s a certain ability to where it’s like, I think the, you know, there’s these purity lines between a consultant of me showing up with a certain level of expertise and experience in me saying, you know, what, I can consult you and I can give you advice, to be able to help you break through that barrier that has value to it. In fact, there’s many times where you’ll actually see me, if you if you’re ever sitting in a session with me, I’ll say, Hey, I’m going to take off my coach hat and put on my consultant hat, because I think I might have something specifically for you, coach, to where between between the different certifications that that we utilize from, you know, from Enneagram, to Strength Finders to disk to whatnot, of taking a massive toolbox in working with a client over a specific period of time and helping them discover their best, their best foot forward, their best version of themselves, and even their best systems and strategies that are specifically designed based on who that leader already is opposed to me influencing myself and putting myself overtop of that person. So a lot of strategic question asking a lot of strategic problem solving coming along the way but more times than not, it’s because because you, Michael, you’re actually coming up with with the solutions, and I’m helping dig that gold out of you, and help you put that fat the path forward. And then there’s also that that third level, which is a little bit more of the intimate side of things with when it comes to counseling. So between consultant coach and counselor, those are those are three specific things that have their there. They’re really, really fine lines between the three categories. But there are very specific skill sets involved in order to make them work.
Micheal Pacheco 07:43
Hmm, yeah. Great. That’s that’s interesting stuff. You know what, Michael, I’m realizing now that my microphone is not turned on. I’m going to do I’m going to just swap my microphone live real quick. Here. Give me one second. Yeah, you bet. Does this sound better?
Michael King 08:03
It’s it’s cleaner. But we didn’t hear you’re not losing any audio from from preview. Good.
Micheal Pacheco 08:08
Cool. All right. Good stuff. So let’s, let’s talk about your your your clients right now your practice? Who are your clients? Who do you work with? Typically, executives, typically,
Michael King 08:21
yeah. I love that I work with I work with sea level leaders and executive teams, which then have implications for enterprise teams as well. So we reverse engineer this all the way back to the type of outcomes that we want to we want to have happen for a specific leader. More times than not when it comes to an enterprise leader. It could be it could be a large company, it could be a small company. But somewhere along the way, that executive, they’re just feeling like their vision is getting stuck. Maybe they’ve just have that to where they can’t see farther than they really want to. Maybe their vision is smaller than what they’d like it to be. So whoever tells the best story wins, always. And so well, who tells the best story, it’s always the teams that produced the greatest results that perform the best I mean, so if you think about it, like I grew up in the in the 90s 80s, and 90s, where it’s like Chicago Bulls, Michael Jordan, Scottie Pippen absolute dominant forces with basketball, you have Mike Tyson, you know, knocking everybody’s heads off within 30 seconds of him taking the ring, you know, these stories, and these performers have teams, they’re absolutely fantastic. And so we really like to be able to get into the nitty gritty of okay, what is the actual scientific but also the practical approaches of making great team dynamics and great chemistry come to life within high performing teams. Well, who’s always leading these teams, it’s always the leaders that lead with the highest levels of authenticity and transparency, great collaborative vision and compelling stories. So, so working with Go ahead,
Micheal Pacheco 09:59
so you can You keep mentioning stories? How does that play into this? Are you? Are you saying that, that teams who, that leaders with teams where the leader tells the best stories and can can kind of like create narratives to motivate the team? Is that the, the topic here? Am I misunderstanding
Michael King 10:22
you’re, you’re getting part of it. The a team that performs the best, there’s, there’s some sort of outcome, there’s some sort of overflow that comes out of a well performing team that impacts the culture in the spaces that those teams occupy. So when I’m thinking about, like great organizations that I’m fans of like, so I’m thinking about like the big famous like the Starbucks, the the Chick Fil A’s, the Apple computers, the people behind really, incredibly compelling brands, those teams, they just have culture, their vision and their value, you’re just completely locked in, like a science. So it’s the stories that are a byproduct of the of the of a healthy team. That makes sense.
Micheal Pacheco 11:04
I think so. Are you? Is it? Is it kind of what’s the word I’m looking for? Are you using story kind of interchangeably with like, culture,
Michael King 11:17
culture and outcomes? You know, I think when it comes to, even with one of the one of our products that we’re getting ready to roll out over the next couple of months, it’s this guest experience certification, it really is about the culture produces the story, the culture produces some sort of inner interchange in in engagement with a client or customer, per se. Yeah. And so, I mean, it could be anywhere from a retail location of, you know, somebody was going into a car dealership and wanting to buy a vehicle, but their engagement is so good. And it’s such a, it’s a great experience. Now, they have an amazing story to tell because of that. So I’m almost,
Micheal Pacheco 12:01
you’re almost talking about like, building a brand, right? Like creating like, these are these are brand new experiences, right?
Michael King 12:09
It always comes down to brand experiences. Yeah, always. But you have to, you have to reverse engineer that and understand that your team always comes before your brand. Now your brand can be aspirational, which it should be because your vision, part portion, portions of your vision, are aspirational. But in order to get that whole thing to work, and especially in executive coaching and team coaching, it always comes down to like, okay, great, how do I take a great leader that has a great vision, making sure that he’s surrounding himself with a team that can actually take that vision and put it into into flawless, amazing execution that produces the brand that produces the stories that produces the engagement? We want fan culture, but are we willing to pay the price? Are we willing to actually reverse engineer down to the value systems that hold up our vision and our values?
Micheal Pacheco 12:57
Right? Right? So you ask the question, how do you how do you build these, these these leaders that are able to lead these teams in such a way that in their everyday interactions with customers, right, a brand is not built in house, a brand is built through these customer interactions through any kind of marketing communications, right, and it’s the brand is really built in the minds and the hearts of the market, right? The people who are interacting, the customers are interacting with that brand. So how do you do that?
Michael King 13:28
I love these questions. Man, you are rocking it. This is so good. So well. And I get to nerd out with you. So I appreciate this very much. So
Micheal Pacheco 13:35
branding, I love branding. It’s like my my favorite thing.
Michael King 13:39
Well, then, okay, so you’ll get this right. So in 20 22,020 to 2021. In the in the marketplace alone, organizations, companies, whatever, they spent $281 billion dollars and what they continue to consider their external communication strategies, or aka marketing and brand strategies $281 billion. These dollars were spent to try to make familiar the products and services that they’re providing to people that were either unfamiliar or lightly familiar with the products and services that they’re offering in the first place. That’s a lot of money. Now, now flip that all the way around when we talk about team culture. Only in comparison, only 1% of the same dollar amount was spent with internal communication strategies. So when you’re asking me the question, okay, how do we make the brand and the stories all come to life? It literally just flipping the funnel around from your, you know, talking about your core, to your community, to your crowd to your city. Flipping that all the way back around and making sure that you’re prioritizing your internal communication strategy that takes that that centric vision and that centric why of understanding the compelling story behind the motivation behind the senior leader in May Making sure that the thing is felt all the way through their whole organization. Because if you can get fan culture to exist at entry levels of your organization, you’ve already won half the battle. Does that make sense? It totally
Micheal Pacheco 15:13
does. So I’m going to keep digging on this because I love this topic. How do you make it felt?
Michael King 15:19
High levels of will number number, there’s really two things. The first thing that I’ll tell you is where most people end up failing on this is that 2020 and 2021. In the middle of COVID, we found ourselves walking into this season of The Great resignation. Right? So it’s like, all of a sudden, you’ve heard of this, like in, you know, unemployment rates, ties that have ever been, and people figuring out ways that are just figuring out a way that the actual power paradigm within organizations, it’s no longer the employee that is waiting for somebody to call the shots. It’s actually the other way around. Now, it’s literally the employer coming to terms with Okay, what does it take for us to actually attract the right employee. So during this great resignation, what we’ve realized is that EQ within an organization is now top priority, like this is one of the biggest things that we’ll talk about for the next decade within leadership is making sure that high levels of emotional intelligence are weaved within the fabric of your whole organization. The second thing is making sure that your internal communication strategy, that between remote work culture and between your brick and mortar in person culture, that communication is no longer an accessory communication is absolutely a necessity. And as a senior leader, it is it’s up to you to reinvent how you’re going to communicate and making sure that you that your communication strategy internally is communicating high levels of emotional intelligence all the way out to your entry levels of your organization. If that isn’t working, nothing’s working.
Micheal Pacheco 17:05
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. I can’t I can’t add anything to that. That’s great. It’s great. Michael. Sweet. So what is the typical engagement with with you guys look like? It really,
Michael King 17:20
it’s, it’s in those three specific kind of areas. So it’s like we have our, we have our one on one or our or our, our tribal type type of groups where you can get into a large group coaching program, or you can get into our one on one executive coaching programs to where your cadence can be set up anywhere from once a week, to every week with one of our coaches, or with myself if, if that’s if you’re a good fit for that, and, and then once a month, you get an opportunity to to, to work with me and your executive teams, or I’ll work directly with you and the people that report directly with you. And then once a quarter, at a level of enterprise engagement, so we either come to you or you can come on site to us. And we’ll do a team event for you. And making sure that all these things that we’re talking about when it comes to internal communication strategies, culture, branding, everything, that we can help you fine tune everything and get it locked in and solid and performing really well.
Micheal Pacheco 18:16
is nice. Let’s get a little more into that. Do you want to talk a little bit about the team’s methodology?
Michael King 18:22
Yeah, let’s do it. So within the team’s methodology, we will first and foremost, I started working with an executive coach myself probably about maybe about three or four years ago. And I stumbled upon a guy that just is a brilliant dude. And now I have a couple executive coaches that that that I’ve personally hired. So we’ve really spent a lot of time working on the team’s methodology to make sure that works. So the motivation behind the team’s methodology really came from that we were finding that attraction in EOS systems within organizations were really, really popular right now. And but in some situations, depending on the size of the team, or even the competency level of the players that were on those teams, sometimes they just lacked the the ability to implement really, really well. And so the team’s methodology was just really birthed out of a way of like, how can we take some of these ideas that were inspired from bigger thinkers than who we are people that are doing things at a much bigger level? But how can we take the best of the best ideas and bring them down into into simple implementation to help people just simply move the needle and to create great wins along the way? So the team’s methodology really consists of these five points. Number one is that every single week we identify a clear target for the week. What is the t stand for targets? The second one is the three levels of engagement. So on a scale of one to 10, how well are we engaging with our audience on a scale of one to 10? How well am I engaging with my direct report? And number three, on a scale of one to 10? How well am I engaging with my peers? The people that serve in lateral positions on my team, and then a sense for action steps. So what’s the one documented action step that we’re moving towards our target for this week? Momentum is the M. Now, momentum, we talked about it just a little bit differently, because a lot of leaders we talk about, okay, what are some extra fuel that we can throw on the fire, what some additional things that we can do to help speed things up a bit? That’s not the way we do it, we really identify the things that aren’t working, we ask the questions. Okay, what are some things you’ve identified that you can remove? So you can go a little bit faster? And do you feel empowered to remove them first and foremost, and or do you have the ability to identify them? Secondly, and then synergies last one is synergy is okay, what are you when all the pieces are in the right, right place? When everything’s performing? Well? What are we celebrating now? And how are you rewarding yourself along the way. So that’s kind of the team’s methodology wrapped up, we have it all built into our app, we have a free app that’s available that you can use, you can download it just the team’s dot team’s dot coach on the app store, you can get right in there and start using that and start documenting your wins and your targets your your action steps along the way. As well as going to our website and getting a getting the paper form of this, which people actually use that exact same outline. Just last week, we found out we had 75 Different companies across the country, just using the paper form to set up their team meetings, which was brilliant, I loved I loved that we got those reports back.
Micheal Pacheco 21:31
Nice. Nice. So you mentioned earlier about EOS and traction. And you mentioned that businesses, there’s a lot of businesses out there, including my own that like it and that use it, but they’re not necessarily good at implementing it. Are you guys an EOS? implementer? I know there’s there’s a that’s kind of a specific thing. And if you’re not, then how are you leveraging? How are you leveraging the the EOS system for what you guys are doing and how you’re working with with the businesses that you’re working with?
Michael King 22:07
Yeah, absolutely. Well, there’s, I think when you’re I’m not an us implementer, we work with several organizations that have us as part of their systems. And so we help facilitate as much as we can, when somebody already has systems like that in place. When I was in church ministry, we actually utilize the US as part of our as part of our church operational system, and it’s brilliant, it’s great. So when it comes to identifying, I think the things I love about about us is just the accountability of it, you know, it’s like, here’s, here’s your veto, here’s exactly what these meetings are going to look like, here’s your, here’s your, your little rocks, here’s your big rocks, your weekly tasks, here’s who accountable, here’s your stories that you’re telling them along the way. So all those things are really, really good. What we found is that just when people want to, when they’re in development of certain things, or if they just don’t have the the leadership acumen on their team to be able to do that. The team’s methodologies, it’s a little bit more of a simple way for them to be able to implement a couple of things, and still identify as big rocks that we’re working on.
Micheal Pacheco 23:11
Gotcha. So the team’s methodologies is in essence, almost like a simplified, maybe distilled version of of ELS that’s a little bit easier to, or maybe a little bit more approachable. I’ll put it that way.
Michael King 23:26
If you use it in that way, it will, it will work in that way. So if you use it in your team environment where you want to use the team’s methodology to, to push things along, yes, it’s a little bit easier to understand there’s not a lot, there’s, it’s it’s certainly not even intended to be as robust as like ninety.io or anything like that, right? This is intended to be just incredibly simple. Project management and leadership visionary deployment, that is simple. However, the team’s methodology is intended to be specifically an executive coaching platform. So I work with my leaders one on one and our calls literally just follow the team’s methodology every single time that I meet with somebody one on one. I haven’t had a client last week, you know, we there’s a Top Golf right here in Omaha and he loves to do his recreational he loves to do his coaching time during his recreation time which I’m great with that it’s like great, let’s go hit some stuff you know. So I’ll pop over with my iPad we’ll go through his his his weekly team’s methodology and we’ll be talking to set up his goals talking about his targets accept has big wins along the way. And it’s something that to where once our clients start engaging with it, they just love it because it’s it rolls off the tip of their tongue really well.
Micheal Pacheco 24:40
Nice. That’s That’s great. That’s that’s good work. If you can get coaching, coaching and topic off having a beer and swing and hit some golf balls.
Michael King 24:52
Why not? Why not?
Micheal Pacheco 24:55
I love it, man. When you when you first started out, what sort of thing Things that you struggle with and how did you overcome those those those barriers in your business?
Michael King 25:04
Yeah. Well, coming out of pastoral ministry, one of the things that I was that I had struggled with was that there’s really two types of leadership systems that exist within the church world. And now keep in mind, I was, you know, I’d been in from being a musician, to singer songwriter, being the music leader within the church. And also being the number two, for a couple decades, you kind of you kind of lose, lose sight a little bit with with what leadership systems exist outside of the church, so you can come become very kind of quarantined in that environment. And one of the things that that was really standing out to me is that you have either like these nepotistic leadership environments to where everybody’s super close and related to each other. And so you have expectations without accountability in some of those spaces. And if you’re anything like me, like, I’m a one on the Enneagram, I’m a type A personality, and I want to keep things moving, I want to keep things, you know, getting results for the time that I’m putting into it. Or you have some organic infrastructure based environments, which operate a little bit more like like the business world. Getting Started into this, some of the things that we that we immediately bumped into was, was just scalability, like how much how much, you know, how can we find out how to get the best performance out of our time? What types of things do I need to adapt into my business to making sure that I’m attracting the right clientele? That’s a perfect fit for me in what I do. And then how do I really make sure that I make visible the things that I valuable that I value the most, I’m a firm believer that whatever we make visible is what we attract. So it’s almost kind of like a fake it till you make it type of thing. But it only takes one really good experience or one really, really like great client for you to find out what your stride is, and what it’s going to take in order for you to get to the next level. And, and so I was pretty thankful we had we had some really big clients come on, because of through speaking engagements, or whatnot. So it was a very organic launch for us. And then during COVID, because everybody had to figure out at the exact same time, literally the whole planet figured out, oh, my, we also need to have a digital version of our business that is just as strong as our brick and mortar version of our business. And what a lucky blessing that I had that I had a background, you know, to where we had an up and functioning creative and media team already working with with us to where we were able to come alongside all these different organizations and nonprofits and churches, and be able to help them develop their dual strategy. It was That was probably one of the biggest, the biggest blessings that we had, and even just during that season.
Micheal Pacheco 27:59
No, that’s great. That’s great. Tell us tell us some more, plus about some big wins that you’ve had.
Michael King 28:07
Big wins. So I would say the things that we’re working on right now. So we were just finishing up like probably, I think probably we’re on our, our 30th podcast that we’re experiencing right now of just doing a little bit more podcasts influencing. So that’s been amazing that it’s been an organic reach of people reaching out to us. Some of our biggest, biggest wins is was that we’ve had one of our businesses last year, they reached out to us when they were actually reaching out to the federal government to get operational loans in order for them to stay in business in 2018 and 2019. This is a business that was doing basically a $4 million dollar profit run year over year. And they were heading into a $400,000 negative cash operational flow in the middle of 2020. And they decided to bring us on and that we’ve had a full $1.2 million flip with that company by making strategic changes to what they’re doing with their business and how they’re approaching it. So that’s huge. We’ve taken a startup out of a title floor company out of Colorado Springs, which is a completely unique space for us to be in you wouldn’t think that an executive coaching firm would be working with a tile floor company but we tell their stories all over our social consistently just because I mean here these these guys that literally have built this brand around this concierge level service providing that they do within the tile floor industry. And it’s in they have done such a great job just running in the plays making sure that their brand is slick and consistent and they’re creating this this high level emotional type experience with their clients to where their clients actually turned into their best storytellers. And, and those guys are have literally grown probably 400% year over year. Ever since we’ve been working on with them over the last three years is been phenomenal.
Micheal Pacheco 30:05
That’s great. What recommendations would you have for new coaches?
Michael King 30:13
Be authentic, be transparent. Be real. I, one of the things that, you know, that I was told early on is that you should never trust a coach that doesn’t have a coach. So, you know, I think by leading yourself well, and making sure that teachability and humility are the number one things that are kind of being the kind of like the TrueNorth of your own life, you’re gonna attract the right people to be able to work with. It’s not always about the big swings. It’s not always about the massive stories.
Micheal Pacheco 30:47
What’s that? Got to get those base hits?
Michael King 30:50
You really do. And I think, again, it’s, you know, we started off the conversation saying, you know, how to, how did I get into coaching? Well, I mean, this does that, I don’t think that you actually choose coaching, I think coaching kind of chooses you and understanding how to use that organic influence that you already have. And try to not have, you know, try not to always want for things that aren’t your sports for yours in the first place. But organically, be yourself and lead in levels of humility and in authenticity, and the right leaders are going to come your way that you’re gonna want to work with.
Micheal Pacheco 31:22
That’s great man. Michael, this has been great. Is there anything that you would like to chat about that we haven’t touched upon?
Michael King 31:33
You know, I came in here with kind of like just an open, open mind and not really necessarily knowing the all these things are just a little bit different, you never quite exactly know where they’re gonna go. But you know, we’ve went down the path of some really cool branding, we’ve went down the ideas of a couple of different things. I have some interesting thoughts on like feedback, misc mechanisms within the organization. So if you ever want to chat about 360 reviews, and why sometimes they don’t necessarily always work out the best they can we can talk about those things at some point as well. Let’s, let’s do that
Micheal Pacheco 32:03
right now. And like, most I would say, the vast majority of guests that I have on this podcast, love 360 degree assessments, because you get, you know, you get you get in theory, you know, true, honest feedback from above, from below and from peers. So what you’ve got some some other thoughts on on those? I’m curious to, to know what you think about that?
Michael King 32:30
Yeah, when they’re executed really well. And when they’re executed rightly, with the right people. 360 Review reviews can be one of the most powerful utilities that you’ll ever use. And but again, do you actually have all the right components in place to navigate these really well. What we found out along the way is, is that the majority of over 7000 different different employees surveyed over the last seven years, is that the highest the highest valuable feedback that we’ve ever gotten back has been what a team member actually feels of their, of their senior leader, not necessarily what the senior leader thinks about the team member. Where we’ve seen things go wrong on these is that if they’re not implemented by a third party with absolute impartial motivations, then they end up they end up going south really, really fast. The 360 review,
Micheal Pacheco 33:37
can you give an example of that of how it would go? Oh, yeah,
Michael King 33:39
absolutely. Number one is, if you are if you’re conducting a 360 review yourself, it’s absolutely 100% important that you don’t come up with your own evaluative questions on your own. You need to make sure that you’re using either a templated services or to have an impartial person, be able to help you come up with the right questions to ask the 360 review, it needs to have valuable questions asked that have no biases
Micheal Pacheco 34:10
that tracks.
Michael King 34:13
Absolutely. And so this is the number one thing where we see the 360 fail, was that a senior leader or somebody within an organization, they’re feeling like they’re their gut might tell them something’s off within their culture, or a KPI might be off in a specific area of performance of the team. So they’ll come up with their own questions to find out. But the problem is, is that asking questions is one of the hardest things to do within an organization when it comes to evaluating things. So you need to make sure that you’re bringing in experts in order to have something that’s created. That’s a constant source of value to where there’s a consistency level across the board so you can evaluate fairly. The 360 review I mean, the history of this thing is just absolutely interesting is that it was first put in I play in World War Two by the, by the German army. And this thing was was created out of the space of how can the German army really evaluate the performance of their senior leaders. And so from there, the template really hasn’t changed that much. And then it came into the 50s and 60s and started to get some traction within within the enterprise space. I like how some of the developments and some of the updates have been taking place to it as well. But now we have so many other options that are available within technology spaces and some different evaluative tools to where you the 360 it’s not, it’s not horrible, but you do need to make sure that you’re implementing it right, and that you have third party interaction in order for you to get the most fair and accurate data possible.
Micheal Pacheco 35:45
Right, because the key, then the whole thing is useless if you’re not getting honest and transparent feedback, both from from seniors to subordinates and peers, right from everybody from the whole 360 degrees. If you don’t have I think maybe this is I think this is what you’re saying, right? Where if you don’t have if I go to a subordinate and say here, fill this out, tell me what you think about me. That’s not going to work. It’s just not. Right.
Michael King 36:16
Well, and I think that yeah, exactly. I mean, I even just challenge you on this today, throw this out on Twitter, throw it out on social, but when you mentioned the idea of three Spino, like, Hey, I’m going to do a 360 degree review within my organization, the majority of the people that we bump into, they actually there’s a little bit of a fear bias on it, because they don’t necessarily trust the delivery mechanisms and the not the anonymity of the data and the feedback that’s given. And 2022 That’s not going to work. You know, like these things have to, you know, here, this is actually a legitimate good practice, as long as you execute it well. And that’s in that, unfortunately, is really the the question at play, are we able to execute it? Well? And do we actually have the right resources at play for us to get fair and accurate data?
Micheal Pacheco 37:05
Yeah, I dig it. I dig it. circle back to branding. Real quick, do you have a favorite book on branding that you that you love that you follow that you use as maybe a guideline for yourself?
Michael King 37:18
You know, because we talked about stories so much, of course, I’m gonna say story brand with Donald Miller, I think that is just absolutely great. But I mean, anything that’s, I mean, there’s, there’s there’s multiple different, you know, things that are out there, but I think when it or you know, anything by Seth Godin, too, I mean, in the branding world is is brilliant. But I think along the along that spaces of really defining the with the clients that we work with, and making sure that you’re developing a compelling story in which that just continues to replicate energy and continues to push your brand farther. I’m a big fan of developing your story brand.
Micheal Pacheco 38:00
Yeah, that’s, we use story branding as a methodology for our clients as well. It just, it just works. I mean, that’s all there is to it.
Michael King 38:12
Especially it just because I think, you know, I, when I was on staff, you know, with, you know, I went from working in, in the church world to being in the finance world, and then working in the automotive industry while I was finishing up my master’s. And one of the things that I used to hate was just, I just hated social media. I love every time that it came up as a staff meeting, talking about, you know, somebody was coming up and saying, we have to do this on social, I was just like, Dear God, this is horrible. I hate this. Well, part of the reason why I hate this, because every time that I log into Facebook, it feels like or even if even now, it’s like LinkedIn, it’s like, How many times am I going to get into my inbox, somebody that’s literally just direct messaging me 35 different ways that if I sign up for their program, that I can have lead generation that’s 10,000 times more powerful than it was before. And, and for me, I kind of come from that space of like, you know, what I’m really want to serve our audience. Well, I really want more things for you than I want things from you. And we live that and I think story branding. I think that does that really well. Like if you have a compelling story of authentic transformational experiences, then you have nothing to worry about. But if it’s fabricated and it’s people feel like they’re constantly in a click funnel or a sales pitch, you’re gonna lose credibility faster than you can keep up.
Micheal Pacheco 39:39
Yeah, I don’t know how many prospects that I talked to and even clients sometimes we’re we’re not in charge of their branding and messaging. You know, you go to their website and it’s we do this you know, we have this certification. We won this award, we do that and not not a thing. about our clients, you, you know what I mean? Like, on the homepage of their website, it’s so so, so common. If the word AI appears on your website more than the word you, there’s a problem.
Michael King 40:13
I love that. That this that’s, that’s, that’s amazing. That’s brilliant.
Micheal Pacheco 40:18
That’s just like that story brand distilled, right? If you distill if the word AI is on your homepage more than the word you, because you should be talking about your clients, then then you got to reconsider your copy.
Michael King 40:32
Oh, man. And that’s probably one of the biggest mistakes that we see that we see organizations making consistently. And there’s just, there’s somebody else that’s always significantly more famous than you are. You just don’t know it yet. But there isn’t somebody that is more important than the client that has the great story. Right. And that’s it. That’s a big that’s a big, kind of true north for us.
Micheal Pacheco 40:57
Yeah. I love it. I love it. Cool, man. Before we wrap up, I’m gonna throw I’m gonna throw a book here that I love that you may not be familiar with 60 minute brand strategist by Idris mu T. Love it. It’s brilliant.
Michael King 41:12
I have not heard that. But I’ll check that out.
Micheal Pacheco 41:15
It’s brilliant. It’s a 60 minute read. It’s very quick and easy. It’s it’s a you know, it’s a 30,000 foot view. It’s definitely not as you’re not going to walk away with a framework like you will from story brand. But the way that he distills what a brand is and how to strategize something like Nike or Apple or Procter and Gamble products, it’s just a little bit kind of blows your mind. It’s a good one. I think you’d like it. I think you’d dig it.
Michael King 41:46
I love it. So cool, man, thank you so much for that.
Micheal Pacheco 41:49
Yeah, you bet. Michael King. Thank you so much for joining us on the remarkable coach podcast. Your website is www dot teams dot coach, where else can our viewers and listeners connect with you online?
Michael King 42:04
You can find me on all social so under Michael King, under under Facebook or teams dot coach under Facebook also teams that coach on Instagram, and Michael King Jr. on LinkedIn. So
Micheal Pacheco 42:17
Danny, thank you, brother. I appreciate your time. Thank you so much. Take care and thank you to our viewers and listeners. We’ll see you guys next time. Cheers.
