Brooke Moran

Micheal Pacheco 0:00
All right. Hello, everyone, and welcome once again to another episode of the remarkable coach podcast. As always, I’m your host, Michael Pacheco. And today with me, I have Brooke Moran. Brooke, am I pronouncing your last name right?

Brooke Moran 0:19
That was actually perfect it not a lot of people hit that well done

Micheal Pacheco 0:23
nice. Next week as a certified professional coach, culture or culture, employee engagement and leadership development consultants, Professor, author, and outdoor adventure enthusiast. Brooke, welcome to the remarkable coach.

Brooke Moran 0:39
Thank you.

Micheal Pacheco 0:40
Thank you. Yeah, appreciate you making time to chat with me here. And, you know, I like to typically start out this podcast by simply inviting our guests to tell us a little bit more about yourself in your own words, and how you got into coaching.

Brooke Moran 0:57
Thanks, well, you kind of ended on the thing that’s front of mind being the being the summer solstice, I’ve just returned from a massive mountain bike ride in the mountains up to almost 11,000 feet. And so I am, like, you know, smile for those who folks who can’t see a giant smile because the outdoors is my happy place. So in my programming, whether as a professor or consultant or coach, I really like to incorporate the outdoors. Think it has not, I think I know it has myriad health benefits. You know, there’s studies from all over the world that talked about the social, psychological, physiological benefits from spending time in nature. And I know you’re looking out your window at a gorgeous landscape. So I guess that’s, that’s a something about me, that might not be readily obvious.

Micheal Pacheco 1:52
Awesome. Awesome. Yeah. We were just talking a little bit before we hit record about you You had mentioned you did. Not not a retreat. But in it, you led an adventure out here in the in the Cascade Mountains, out where I near near where I live, at least.

Brooke Moran 2:09
Yeah, so my first career was as an outdoor educator or outdoor leader. So really using the outdoors as a vigorous learning environment to help people hone their leadership skills, those interpersonal skills, problem solving, resilience, working with folks under duress, being agile, all those things that translate actually quite beautifully into the marketplace. And so yeah, I worked month long courses in the Cascades in Alaska in Wyoming. And I so yeah, I just have affinity for where you where you are in the world. big mountains, open spaces. Lots of weather to kick your butt.

Micheal Pacheco 2:55
Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. I think we musta had, I don’t know, maybe 10 or 12 feet of snow this this last winter.

Brooke Moran 3:03
Oh, we need some of that in Colorado. Yeah.

Micheal Pacheco 3:06
Yeah, you’re up. We’re I’m only at about 3000 feet elevation. We definitely got some snow. I think you’re up a little higher than I am, I suspect. Yeah, we’re at

Brooke Moran 3:16
about 77 and had a low snow year. So we’re definitely concerned about fires this year. And anyway, all that fun climate change stuff that we have going on in the world these days.

Micheal Pacheco 3:29
That is happening. I mean, I want to, I want to I want to talk a little bit about the outdoor stuff. Obviously, it’s a huge, huge passion of mine living where I live and yeah, my family and I we live off grid on 30 acres and with a huge national forest is our backyard. And we love screaming frog in my throat. We love hiking, camping, you know, survival ship, bushwhacking all that stuff? Yeah, yeah. super into it. I love it. And I wonder how I want to know, just tell us a little bit more about your programs, do you still do outdoors leadership programs and that sort of thing? Or is that

Brooke Moran 4:11
not in that format anymore? Having a 14 year old kid and being gone for a month at a time and you know, I’m 49 and I got to save my knees for when my kid wants to do that kind of thing. So I don’t do that anymore. But I do love you know, incorporate it through, you know, during a coaching session going for a walk, you know, in in non COVID times, or sitting outside in a really peaceful place or challenging them to spend time in nature. So I definitely have a long history. I grew up in the sticks of New Hampshire and we I could go pretty much anywhere and play all day in the outdoors. And then my high school had a really progressive program where we spent two weeks in the White Mountains of New Hampshire in the winter. Er, which was insanely cold and did a 3d solo. And then in college my my folks said, Hey, do you know do you think you want to do a semester abroad? And I said, Yep, I want to go to Patagonia. And so I went to Patagonia and sea kayaking and mountain neared and backpacked and hung out with public doors. And with who, public doors, I like kind of a ranchers slash subsistence farmers, and went 75 days without a shower. So you know, wow, that’s really alluring to a lot of people who’d like to spend time with a coach. I have showered many times

Micheal Pacheco 5:47
I bet you had to.

Brooke Moran 5:50
We did have lakes and oceans and streams, but, but no hot shower for 75 days.

Micheal Pacheco 5:56
So I need to hear firsthand. What was that first shower? Like? Just describe it in all of its glory? Oh, God,

Brooke Moran 6:07
it was years ago, I do remember looking at the bottom of the shower and thinking. I mean, Pigpen has got nothing on me. It’s just dirt, dirt, dirt, you know, and you’d stay as clean as you can. But for inevitably, sure, maybe a bit of a dirt bag after that much time. But my God, it felt glorious. You know, and then you want the next one pretty soon thereafter.

Micheal Pacheco 6:36
That’s awesome. So tell us why why coaching for you?

Brooke Moran 6:41
Oh, my gosh, it feels like home. And I didn’t, you know, I didn’t realize it sort of that clearly until the last few years. But when I look back, I always was interested in helping people. Whether that was standing up to a bully who was picking on somebody, or helping someone learn a sport or helping them with school, I always just wanted to lift people up. And that continued in high school and college. And then obviously, Outdoor Leadership. You know, being a mentor, mentor to folks and then into being a professor for nearly 20 years is about helping people. And then I realized, you know, students were coming for advice. But I realized that if I flicked it on them, and ask them, What do you want to do? What’s in your way? What’s the first step you’re going to take? When are you going to take it that it was much more profound for them. And so then I just started looking into coaching and learning more about it and saved up some money and finally did a course and then did more kind of top ups to expand my skill set. And I just, I’d love it, I’d love those breakthrough moments that I get to celebrate with someone that I just feel an insane privilege to be able to celebrate with that person. Hmm,

Micheal Pacheco 8:14
that’s great. Tell us about tell us about those people who are your clients.

Brooke Moran 8:21
unmix I’m doing a bit of group coaching now for medical supplier, medical company. But then I would say my sweet spot, my I’m a human potential catalyzer Zen for business. And we run leadership development courses. And we use the leadership circle profile 360 assessment. And so we we start by helping them investigate, you know, where are they, the people, they love working with the most or middle manager kind of early middle manager or ready to hit that next level. And in particular, the folks who don’t understand the power they already have. And I mean, and when I say power, I don’t mean power over I mean power to power with those folks, when they get the results, they didn’t realize the positive impact that they’re already having, and then helping them step into that potential. That’s just the sweet spot. I love it. And I love when they text me and say I just did x, y or z and this was the result and I get to celebrate with them. It’s just I feel like I’ve won the lottery that I get to be witness to that.

Micheal Pacheco 9:41
It’s awesome. So you you have a mix, mixed bag of clients, it sounds like Have you have you niched down at all? I mean, do you target, you know, specifically small businesses or something like that?

Brooke Moran 9:53
Yeah, great question. So I have to give you a tiny bit of background for that. So this the coaching work has been on the side for four years, because I was a full time professor. And after 19, I guess 20 years, if you count other schools, I’d really grown out of that role. I’m someone who loves to be challenged, I love to be pushing my comfort zone, I love to be learning. And while I can change my classes and teach in different departments and teach new classes, it just, it just didn’t have the it didn’t drive me the way it used to. So actually, as of July 1, I will, I will be resigned. So I’m in my last couple of weeks here of being a professor. So anyway, my husband and I are pivoting to be full times and for business culture and leadership, development, work and coaching. So now we’re really trying to focus down and so we’re we’re trying to hit we’re not there yet, I want to be really candid. Where we want to hit is middle to upper management in the outdoor industry. Because that’s, that’s our history. That’s our you know, we love to work with folks who love the outdoors, who want to protect the outdoors who want to lift people up through the outdoors. So not quite there yet. But but we are slowly moving in that area. And yeah, so it’s mostly I would say entrepreneurs, nonprofit leaders, government leaders, some middle you know, kind of middle sized businesses. It’s a pretty wide net right now, frankly.

Micheal Pacheco 11:32
Nice. What is your Can you talk a little bit about your plan and how you your plan for getting to where you want to go? Right? So you guys are targeting kind of upper management and leadership in outdoors companies out of sports and outdoors companies. What is your what’s your next few steps to get there?

Brooke Moran 11:51
Great question. So we have partnered with a woman Kristen Freeney from path to peak. And she’s helping introduce us to various folks in the industry. So we were in the service side of the injured industry with outdoor education, Outdoor Leadership. And she really had been working with all kinds of folks in the outdoor industry conservation folks, product folks have the Casy groups. So we’re, we I have hired her to help us, you know, just to introduce us to folks, the she’s kind of our love connector. And then it’s actually on my to do list is to contact a woman who lives actually just up the road in Crested Butte and she does marketing specifically for the outdoor industry. So we’re gonna see about hiring for lovely to break. Yeah. That’s great. So I will say, I know that you’re, you know, a bit of a marketing guru. I suck at that. I’m awful at it. I don’t like to do it. I’m awful at it. It’s so yeah, we have to outsource for that.

Micheal Pacheco 13:07
I’ve got good news, I’ve got good news for you don’t have to be good at it. Right? Focus, focus on what you’re good at and outsource

Brooke Moran 13:16
exactly what we’re doing.

Micheal Pacheco 13:18
That’s yeah, that’s that’s the, that’s the the path to growth, I think the path to scalability, right? If you’re trying to, if you’re trying to do everything, you know, the stuff that you’re not as good at is gonna take you 10 times as long, and you’re just not gonna get there faster.

Brooke Moran 13:33
And just fall I mean, I see that people are good, who are really good with marketing. I can feel it. I can feel through whatever their outreach is, I can feel their passion. And I know that they’re good at it. And when I do it, you just hate it. And that comes through. And so why do it I want to be doing the coaching, I want to be doing leadership development stuff. Yeah.

Micheal Pacheco 13:56
I mean, that’s, that’s important. That’s important self awareness. I think a lot of a lot of coaches that I speak to on this podcast, they know, they know that they want more time. They don’t have enough time to do everything. They know that like coaching, but sometimes it can be difficult to make that connection. That you know, I think if Peter Drucker said double down on your strengths and forget about the weaknesses, yeah. Focus on what you’re good at. Yeah. And the the you know, the this having the self awareness to be like, I don’t like doing this. I don’t want to do it. I think you’ll you’ll, you’ll grow faster that way, for sure.

Brooke Moran 14:38
grow faster. And I think at least for me, makes me a nicer family member. I find not stressed about doing something that I hate and don’t think will be that effective. I’m just nicer to be around to

Micheal Pacheco 14:53
your person in general. Yeah, totally. Speaking of growth, can you talk a little bit about risk and how risk is how what the interplay is between risk and growth?

Brooke Moran 15:07
Oh, god, yes, absolutely. It’s actually one of my favorite topics. So in addition to my kind of Outdoor Leadership background, I also my, my formal education is in education and an emphasis and experience experiential education. And that’s at the heart of all of it is stepping out of our comfort zones, or in the nerdy parlance of academia, edge work is that you’re working and the outside edge of your comfort zone into that stretch zone, but staying within the edge of or just outside the edge of the panic zone. And so that stretch zone can maybe give you a little butterflies and create a little bit of dissonance, or you can go much closer to that panic zone, and really be on that edge of almost paralysis, but not quite. And that’s where the magic happens. There are a couple I mean, there are a couple important things about it is that folks probably aren’t going to step out of their comfort zones, if they don’t have come some kind of support, they don’t have hope for a positive change. And it’s really important to come back into that comfort zone to process because when you’re on your edge, when you’re in the, you know, you call it the flow state or the Zen state or without being in the zone, a lot of people call it is that, that heightened awareness and really kind of on the edge of your ability, you can’t stay there forever, you’ll burn out. So that importance of coming back in to that to the comfort zone to sort of process and grow or using that metaphor of the gym, you know, you’ve got to rest your muscles in order for them to get stronger. So I got I just love that you brought this up, we. So my husband and I were, you know, professors for years, I was 19 years, he was 18 years, we worked elsewhere. And we really wanted to go full time into them for business. But we’ve got a kid, we’ve got a mortgage. We want health insurance, we have that security of a monthly paycheck, years and years and years. And so we actually talked about resigning for years, but didn’t know if we had enough work built up to really jump into Zen. You know, and then the Gremlins get you at night? What if you don’t get the work? And what if you have to sell the house? Or what if you can’t pay the mortgage? Or, you know, all of this all this stuff? What if someone has a major accident you don’t have how to care? And so the Gremlins come in and and I think one of the one of the things that ultimately had us resign is we’re working with our coaching clients and talking to them about needing to do that edge work that if they really want to excel as a leader, if they want to improve, they can’t do it from their comfort zones. So what are they scared of? What support do they have? What’s the worst that’s going to happen? All these kinds of questions, and then we look in where to go. We’re kind of playing it safe staying at the university. And so the last six months is we’ve very much been walking our talk. And finally putting that resignation letter in and, and really going hard to build our business. And I think almost like probably every day for the last six weeks since my last day of teaching in classes in grading. I leave my home office. Oh my god, I love my new job. I love it. I’m so happy. It’s so rewarding. I see so many possibilities in front of me. And of course, stepping out of your comfort zone. You also get that rush and the endorphins pumping and cool baby. I’ll stop there. It feels like I just had about 18 cups of coffee. So there is an answer to your very short question. Could

Micheal Pacheco 19:15
God no, that’s that’s, that’s great. I wonder if is this? Is this something? Is this a new season in life for you? Or is this something that you regret not doing sooner? That makes sense. Did you? Are you making this pivot at the right time? Or do you wish you had done it sooner?

Brooke Moran 19:34
I’m making it a Yeah, good question. Pardon me, which is I made it sooner. But at the same time, we only started our consultancy. I’ve been working for other consultancies for years and years and years. But we wanted to deliver our own content and we wanted to do coaching and so we kind of hung up our own shingle and have been steadily building it over I guess for four years. So it wasn’t quite at this thought that we needed it yet. Um, so I really I think the timing was right. I was ready to go along, you know, quite a few years ago. But I think now the timing is just, and actually I had, I was working with a coach. And I said, Well, I can’t quit yet till my son’s out of school because of health insurance. And because he can get a free education where I am. She’s like, whoa, whoa, whoa, pump the brakes. No, I’m making the presumptions there. Let’s explore this. And she actually helped me make the move. And one of the things she said, Okay, what’s your first move, and I said, I’m going to write my resignation letter. So great. So I wrote it. And I put it right behind my desk, and looked at it for a bunch of months. And for various reasons, I didn’t resign just then and good thing, because COVID like everything crashed, and consulting and coaching, at least at the level where we were kind of went out the window. So I think this was the right time. Right. Now, if you’re a universe kind of guy. Think it was the right time.

Micheal Pacheco 21:15
I want to circle back to I want to circle back to a couple of things that you said number one, you mentioned edge work. As an academia term. I think there’s also this is, this is just me, I’m going to take us off on a tangent real quick, and then we’ll come at it. And I’m just gonna be a hockey geek here for a minute. The Colorado Avalanche where you live are in the Stanley Cup Finals right now. They were my team back in 96. And 97. I love the avalanche, the avalanche and edge work is also a common term in hockey when you’re on the edge of your skates. Right? Totally. And and it’s it’s that usually when it’s when it’s used in, in reference to hockey, it’s also same as similar to what you’re talking about where you’re kind of you’re on the edge. And you’re

Brooke Moran 22:03
going so hard that you could spill, but you’re right there.

Micheal Pacheco 22:06
Right in Yeah, you’re kind of pushing pushing physics to the limits a little bit right. In a kind of similar, I mean, it’s not a perfect metaphor, but I just thought that was interesting timing being that you’re in Colorado, and they’re in the playoffs right. Now, the other thing that you mentioned that I really liked this the Gremlins, in marketing, we call that the 3am conversation. And that’s the one that gets you up in the middle of the night. So when you’re thinking, I know you don’t like marketing, but as you’re thinking about maybe creating content for for your business, think about the Gremlins that are getting at your clients. Right? What’s their 3am conversation? And how can you help them solve that? Love that? Yeah. And that’s, you know, that’s, that’s a thing that we do frequently in marketing is just always thinking about our ideal client, what is their 3am conversation? What are the Gremlins that are getting them in the middle of the night? And how can we solve that?

Brooke Moran 23:05
I love that. Yeah.

Micheal Pacheco 23:07
And then the other thing that you said, going back to a bunch of this stuff, is you were, you know, thinking about kind of as you’re preparing to maybe leave your Olympic College professorship but leave academia, right? And start this coaching, you’re thinking about, you know, what is the worst that could happen? There’s a phrase that I love to use in my own personal life called fear setting. Where you, and I think, Tim Ferriss, I believe did a TED talk or a TEDx talk on this. But it’s essentially sitting down with, you know, a piece of paper and planning out the the absolute worst that could happen. If everything just explodes, what is the absolute worst that could happen? And very frequently, what you find is that, really, it’s probably not going to be all that bad. And then that helps to just kind of suck some of the fear out of that, out of that decision making process. So I like to do that in my personal and professional life quite a bit. Just to put things in perspective, right.

Brooke Moran 24:19
Yeah, generally, it’s not catastrophic, right. Yeah. No, no. Thank you. Please keep bringing these tidbits because I really love it.

Micheal Pacheco 24:32
It’s great. Tell us tell us a little about the Zen in Zen for business.

Brooke Moran 24:39
Absolutely. So actually, it kind of goes to edgework. It’s so zen generally is, you know, an exchange of energy, your energy in general. And it’s, we think of it as akin to being in the zone or being in that flow state. So even more special Typically, when you ask folks, you know, we do we do workshops with, you know, five to 80 people. And we’ll say, Okay, so tell me about times when you felt that when you’ve been in the zone, or in that flow state, and they’ll say, oh, playing music, or singing or mountain biking, or skiing or traveling or, you know, having a deep conversation where you’re at a heightened level of performance. And you’re so focused that time can go by quickly. Let me tell you how rarely, people say, oh, when I’m at work, it’s really rare. Yeah. And so one of our aims is to help organizations it’s, it’s around employee engagement, and helping employees bring their sense of purpose to work in ensuring that there’s values alignment, so people are excited to go to work, so that they get into that flow state at work where they can bring their best to something that has a purpose that inspires them. And together, they can achieve more. So when I talked about leaving my home office now when I’m saying, Oh, my gosh, I love my new job. I am totally on at work right now. And you know, there’s like billing and, you know, stuff like that, of course, it’s with every job. But for the most part, now I get to create, I get to code to get to facilitate, I get to dream I get to write, and it’s just, it’s a dreamland. It’s wonderful. And so if we can help individuals, teams and organizations reach that Zen state at work more. So that might be God, what a nicer marketplace. What a nicer world, what a nicer person that goes home to their family. So thanks a lot.

Micheal Pacheco 27:05
You mentioned you don’t like marketing? Where do you guys currently get your clients? And how do you market yourself? Because you got to be you’re trying to get to, to where you’re going. So you’ve got to be getting clients right now, how are you getting those clients?

Brooke Moran 27:21
So much of it is word of mouth. Actually, that’s great. So we, you know, we do Instagram and Facebook and LinkedIn, and we have an email list. So much of that is word of mouth like I, you know, I had someone we’re in Colorado, I had someone in New Hampshire, who I’ve known for years. And you know, I really need to take your we call it Zenith leadership experience. So Zenith reaching that height of your leadership, seen as leadership experience, and she said, I really need to take that course. And so she took it. And then she was involved in networking groups, and BNI, if you’ve ever heard of that, and she just started talking about it. And then she brought people in nice people in our valley or beyond, talk about it with their friends and say, hey, you’ve got to do this. So we’ve been really lucky that way. And then, of course, this this woman who’s networked in the outdoor industry, as she’s helping get the word out for us. That’s awesome. But again, we still need to hire someone who’s really more of a marketer.

Micheal Pacheco 28:25
Yeah. What does a typical engagement with you guys look like? So I know, you sounds like you do some group coaching, and you’ve got some courses, you also do one on one coaching, a little bit about those different different types of engagements and kind of what those look and feel like for your clients?

Brooke Moran 28:42
Yeah, absolutely. Thanks for asking. So, one, since I’m talking about Zenith leadership experience, it’s a small group experience. It’s, you know, six to 10 people we meet every other week for three hours. And we delve into different content that will help elevate their effectiveness as leaders. So one of the one of the big things we do is the leadership circle profile, which is a 360 assessment. And so we had to meet people where they are for that, because people come in from with different experiences, kind of different levels and organizations, different industries. So we can really spend some focus one on one time with them there. And then we do coaching with them. And then we have group things. So we might talk about feedback. It is I grew up in organizations that really valued feedback. And what I what we found is people are terrified a feedback of giving it, keeping it how to create a safe container so it’s growth oriented and a gift. So things like feedback, diversity, equity and inclusion. We talk a lot about culture. How do you how do you curate an inclusive culture wherein all People are sort of not just encouraged, but expected to work toward their potentials. So anyway, we investigate a bunch of topics together as a cohort, they also help start to mentor each other. You know, they’ll come like, what’s your pain point and someone will come with, hey, you know, I’m having a really hard time motivating this person on my team. And then it’s not just me or not just my my business partner and husband, Paul team, and me, giving feedback, but they get all these different experiences from the cohort. So that’s one thing. Coaching, just kind of regular old coaching, we do like to pair it with that leadership circle, because it’s so incredibly powerful. It’s just a phenomenal tool.

Micheal Pacheco 30:47
And when you say regular coaching, I mean, one like one to one coaching. Yeah,

Brooke Moran 30:51
yeah. Without the course involved, just coaching engagement.

Micheal Pacheco 30:55
So we’ll talk a little bit about that one, what is what does that look like? Do you do like monthly retainers? Is there like a three month minimum or like,

Brooke Moran 31:05
you know, different options? Yeah, again, there’s sort of a, we do an executive package where it’s, you know, every other week, but then you can have, you know, quick 15 minute kind of emergency phone calls, we also use the leadership circle for that. Even, you know, someone will call and say, Hey, I just wanted to do a few sessions just for a half an hour, great. So we’ll figure out kind of meet people, we really like to meet people where they are, love it. And then we do a lot of custom programs for groups. So someone will call and say, Hey, this is what we’re experiencing in our team, you know, we really need to build our culture, we really need to work on communication or their strife in our group, or whatever it may be. And then we design a program to address their needs. We we used to kind of do one shot wonders, like three hours or four hours or one day. And we’re really sort of moving away from that and saying no, because we’re not seeing the results. Those we call them one shot wonders are splashing giggle effect. It’s great. And everyone feels high. They’re awesome. And they not were in Colorado, I’m not talking about smoking pot right here, but But you know, they they get a bump and energy from each other and for themselves, and they leave feeling wonderful. But without that continued reinforcement, it falls by the wayside. So we’ve moved to longer term programs over a few months, or at least several different sessions, to try to reinforce that learning and get them practicing whatever those skills are that they need to excel as individuals and as a team. So those are the main those are the main ways we engage.

Micheal Pacheco 32:49
Nice. Yeah, I think I resonate with what you’re talking about the with the one hit wonder thing, I think it was Zig Ziglar. Maybe Tony Robbins, Zig Ziglar who said motivation is like bathing, you have to do it every day.

Brooke Moran 33:05
Oh, nice. Just doing

Micheal Pacheco 33:07
going to a weekend convention will get you hyped up for for for maybe five days, but really fades and wears office as time you know, time ticks on.

Brooke Moran 33:22
That’s absolutely how we think of it. I mean, how many times like you said, a convention or a conference where you get so jazzed in your to do list is like the inside and the outside cover of the pamphlet and you’re so excited. And all these ideas and you’re reaching out to people and then you get into the grind and it’s gone. You get

Micheal Pacheco 33:39
home and the to do list starts to look like oh my god, what am I doing list?

Brooke Moran 33:45
Exactly. Is that that important now? No, it’s not. Let me take that one off. Is this one really not important? Maybe not? Yeah, we like to create that. Reinforce reinforcement and I guess support really?

Micheal Pacheco 33:58
Yeah. What sort of what sort of struggles are you? Are you guys having right, right now as you’re, as you’re making? You’re like right in the middle of this gigantic pivot from, from academia from full time work into full time coaching. What struggles are you seeing right now?

Brooke Moran 34:20
Sticker Shock is the big one. Yeah. Okay. Well, let me give you two one. from the business perspective. It’s sticker shock, excuse me and get a drink. Because we tend to work with small to medium sized businesses. The bigger ones get it like they don’t even blink an eye. But the smaller ones they don’t understand why consulting prices are so much and you know, even if you explain Okay, well there’s insurance and there’s planning time and there’s office space and there’s overhead and all this. So that’s really tricky. If any listeners out there are interested, we’ve started doing safer a big program. What we’ve started to do where the you know, the the price tag seems massive, is we’ll say this is x amount per person. And that helps because it’s like, well, how much we live in a tiny mountain town for that person to go to a conference to fly to a conference for the fees, the the hotel, the travel, the food, the, you know, the whole thing. How much is that versus this program? Which is longer term, you’re getting more people and then what’s the price per person on that? So we’ve had that has helped a little bit. If you have any, you know, I

Micheal Pacheco 35:45
I’m transparently I’m not in sales, and I’m not a great salesman, but I do have a sticky note right here on my, on my computer, you’re not gonna be able to read my god awful handwriting, but it says stop selling your services, and start selling a way of thinking, sell the belief that leads to buying the service?

Brooke Moran 36:11
Will you give me an example?

Micheal Pacheco 36:13
Of um, I will, if I can think of one. I have to pause the podcast while I think of one. So for example, let’s see, instead of selling a gym membership, okay, you want to sell the healthy lifestyle, the benefits, the benefits of the healthy lifestyle, you you live longer, you have more energy, right. And then in their own heads, they’re putting two and two together as they’re being sold this new way of thinking, right? And they’re going to come to the conclusion that gosh, this gym membership would really help me achieve all of these results that I would get from a healthier lifestyle from being healthier from having more energy. And they’re going to sell themselves on it. So you’re not selling at all. Yeah, but a positive psychology.

Brooke Moran 37:05
It sounds like a little bit. Yeah. Yeah. I like that. Yeah. Nice. From a personal perspective, something that I struggle with and have to continue to remind myself is, as a professor, part of my role was being an advisor, like to give the answers because these, you know, this class is an offer. Now this one is if you’re on this track, here’s something you need to take is refraining to provide advice. Whenever I go into a coaching session, I have to remind myself before they have the answers, they have the answers ask the right question

Micheal Pacheco 37:50
is for consultants not for coaches?

Brooke Moran 37:53
Exactly. And so it’s something I’m I, it’s, I still struggle with it. Obviously, I can’t even get it out of my mouth, they still struggle with it. And they have to constantly remind myself. Yeah,

Micheal Pacheco 38:07
nice. Well, tell us tell us about some big wins that you guys have had.

Brooke Moran 38:20
I wouldn’t say a big win a little bit when we had been there’s a local government agency that we’d been trying to work with for four years, maybe. And, you know, it’s like, oh, what I don’t need that help. My team needs that help. And just by just by sort of being available and friendly, and not pushing and waiting until that person was ready to bring in her team. You know, she finally came to, I’m ready. I want to do individual coaching and the leadership circle, and I want you to do a series of workshops with my team. And so that just felt we almost threw up her hands. I was like, alright, well, then we’re never gonna get in there. Forget it. And, and we did, and it was extraordinary. I mean, I, you know, have the people reaching out to me saying, Hey, I passed your name on to this other organization, I really need to work with you. And so it was just, yeah, I felt really lucky to be trusted. Yeah. And, and to have a group that was so engaged that really did want to make the changes to create a healthier culture for their team was was incredibly rewarding.

Micheal Pacheco 39:35
That’s awesome. Crack open the champagne time.

Brooke Moran 39:39
Yeah, yeah, it was really fun. What does that say? That’s the one that comes to mind. Sorry, go ahead.

Micheal Pacheco 39:47
What about some like some results in terms of results that you’ve gotten for? For some clients?

Brooke Moran 39:56
It’s so funny. I’m glad I literally just asked someone to I said, Okay, it’s been your a year out. Did you feel a difference from this is from she did the course. But she also did coaching. And she said, perhaps the biggest help was that she could chill out. So she had her own business, grew it from about three to 14 people in a couple of years accounting business in New Hampshire. And she had the business she’s, I mean, she’s a numbers nerd. But that’s not her thrust as much as creating a healthy, engaging place to work for employees. She just wants to be a good employer and have a wonderful place for these 14 folks to work. And to do that she was working nights she was working weekends, she was constantly stressed, she wasn’t sleeping. And what she said the course in the coaching did for her was to let go is to kind of speaking of Gremlin, get rid of that perfect. I don’t know if you’ve spoken with other girls who had the perfect Gremlin, right? We want to be perfect. We we can’t show any cracks, mistakes. And that was one of her bugaboos. And so the coaching helped her recognize that and let it go. And so, you know, sometimes she’ll walk her dogs now in the middle of the day. during the work day, she’s there are many weekends where she doesn’t work. And so, so that was really satisfying. And another woman recently who had a small brokerage business. And she said, Well, someone said I should, I should start a team, but I’m not going to because I’m not a leader. And so through coaching, we investigated those, you know, I guess it was kind of a what do you call it the 3am conversation? Or

Micheal Pacheco 42:04
what that is, it sounds like, what’s that? Just that sounds just like a strip self limiting belief?

Brooke Moran 42:09
Yeah. Oh, god. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. And then she said, I don’t want to ask anyone to join me because I don’t want to be salesy. And so then we questioned that what a salesy look like to you, how do you interact? Anyway, so she’s one of those people who literally would they welcome people like, hey, if something happens, email me, text me Call me. Let’s celebrate. And she was someone who actually did that. And, and so we’ve been celebrating, I think she’s about to get two people on her team. And just by being hurt. Wow, that’s great. So that felt like a really big breakthrough. Because when we started, she said, No, I’m not growing. I’m not going to do that. Absolutely. Not actually building our team. So that was, that was exciting. And she feels really empowered still really, you know, humble, beautifully humble, but just more confident in herself.

Micheal Pacheco 42:59
Nice. That’s awesome. Rick, I want to be conscious of the time here, and we’re coming up on the hour. Is there anything that you would like to say? Is there anything you’d like to chat about that we haven’t touched upon yet?

Brooke Moran 43:21
Can I turn the tables? Oh, boy. Okay. So with all the with all the coaches you’ve spoken with, when when they want to continue to grow? What are some of the things you’ve heard that are interesting, whether it’s a specific course, or a practice that they have in their lives or something that maybe was surprising to you? Kind of those those folks who continue to grow and better serve their clients? What have you heard? The main thing

Micheal Pacheco 44:03
that I would probably reply to that is that No, coach, worth their salt does not have their own coach, that’s a double negative. Let me simplify that. Every every. I think every coach that has been on this podcast has a coach. Every one of them meets their own dog food, so to speak, right. So everyone, as far as I know, like the vast majority of the coaches that I speak to, and I think everyone that’s been on this podcast, has their own coach and they use that. I mean, they use their coach, right, in the same way that their clients use them. And I think that’s, you know, that’s that’s really the big thing. In terms of growth in terms of personal and professional growth. Now, I’m not sure are you also talking about like growing the business itself or?

Brooke Moran 45:01
Oh, I was talking about personal Yeah, yeah. So I mean, your question for you specifically? Yeah. I think I already know the answer. But I’d love to hear particulars. So something that the majority of clients struggle with is balance. And I think we’re beyond the time of saying work life balance, because it’s work life integration. Now. I mean, you have a home office, I have a home office, so many people do. So it’s, it has to be a lot more fluid. What the heck do you do to unplug and rejuvenate? Um,

Micheal Pacheco 45:37
yeah, I mean, that’s a great question. It really depends on it depends on a lot of things. Really. My preferred activity is stepping outside my door. Yeah, as we as I think I think we mentioned on the podcast early in the podcast. You know, I live out here in the Washington State cascades, we’re on 30 acres, we’re completely off grid and my backyard is a is a different pin show National Forest. So yeah, for me, just literally stepping outside going for a walk or a hike. We have the West Fork of the Washougal river that runs right through our property, we kind of we own the valley. And my plan this summer is to cut trail down there, because right now it takes about three hours to bushwhack down to the end of the river. But I want to cut trail down there and go, I’ll probably go go fishing, you know, and go and have catch field catch my lunch.

Brooke Moran 46:46
What is the what is? What does it feel like for you? So nature? I mean, I think nature is a magic elixir. Personally, I’m incredibly biased. So I’m curious for you. What does it feel like before you go out there? And after you go out there? What are the different what are the changes in various parts of your body, your psyche,

Micheal Pacheco 47:08
I’m also I’m also I also tend to be biased. I think I grew up here in the Pacific Northwest, I grew up in Oregon, on a big 700 acre grass seed farm. And now I live out here in the mountains, the opposite of the grass of the big butt. You know, for me, I’m obviously what I do, as as an agency owner, as a podcaster. I’m in front of screens all day. Yeah, I tend to get I tend to carry a lot of stress in my shoulders, upper back, you know, get it feel anxiety get. I mean, if it’s happening right now, right, my brains just kind of running at a million miles an hour. If I don’t have time to go for a walk, I’ll sit in my chair back there and I’ll meditate for five or 10 minutes, and it just kind of slows everything down. When I go outside. It’s everything just feels better. I don’t really know how to say it. And if it Matt, you know, the you my breathing calms down, I become very, very present. Very rarely will I take my phone with me. And if I bring my phone with me, it’s to listen to an audio book or something like that. Right? It’s with purpose. I’ll bring my phone with me with intention. But there’s no like I if I walk 100 feet 200 feet away from my house. I have no no cell service anyway. So my phone is completely loose. Which is perfect. Right, which is great. Totally. It’s exactly what the doctor ordered. So yeah, I think for me getting outside, it’s just there’s a there’s a Japanese term. Yeah. And I should know this because I went to university in Japan, she in the in the UK. So I have a degree in Japanese Language and Literature and actually did commercial translation professionally for a while. It’s super, super useful degree. Yeah, totally Japanese Language and Literature. Anyways, yeah. So she named Yoku is forest bathing in in Japanese. And it’s exactly what is just getting out in nature and just like being present, being there. And just I mean, that’s it just existing in and I

Brooke Moran 49:33
just love that term.

Micheal Pacheco 49:34
Yeah.

Brooke Moran 49:36
Can we leave your listeners with a challenge? Yeah. Go outside. Go find a green space. Even if you’re in a city find a green space. Listen to a bird. Go look at a lake a stream an ocean, walk in the woods, take your shoes off, put them on the sand if you’re really in the heart of a city. Take some Time to be around a plant even indoors. It is cathartic it is healthy for your nervous system.

Micheal Pacheco 50:08
100% If you’re in a desert find a brown space.

Brooke Moran 50:11
Yeah, totally. Yeah, absolutely.

Micheal Pacheco 50:15
Brooke where can our listeners and viewers connect with you online?

Brooke Moran 50:21
Then for business FLR dotnet we also have Instagram and Facebook and this is how bad I am at marketing. I have no idea what our hand I know it’s been for business on Facebook, but I have no idea what the Instagram what is. And we’re also on on LinkedIn, but on our on our website, again, www dot Zen for business.net. There are also some, some free resources around leadership and resilience and purpose and culture and things like that. So certainly invite folks to go there.

Micheal Pacheco 51:01
Awesome. And the zenith leadership experience is in for business dotnet forward slash Zenith. Go check it out. Brooke, thank you so much for taking the time to join me. This has been a really great conversation. I appreciate it.

Brooke Moran 51:14
Thank you. I want a picture of your view.

Micheal Pacheco 51:21
On TGN email, we can you can see it in all different directions.

Brooke Moran 51:26
Thank you so much for the invitation.

Micheal Pacheco 51:28
Thank you so much. And thank you to our viewers and listeners for joining us once again. We’ll see you guys next time take care