Kevin Stafford 0:04
Hello, everyone, and welcome to another episode of the conversations with coaches podcast. I’m your host, Kevin, and I’ve already got great energy from chatting for just a few minutes. With Stan peak, one of my favorite returning guests. I haven’t one of those lately, I feel like but I love all of my pod friends equally. They’re also wonderful, saying that I had a fantastic conversation. Gosh, was that a year ago? I think that was almost a year ago at this point. You know, I don’t want to think about basketball. I’m 14 years old and we’re moving forward. Stan, in case you don’t remember saying is passionate about Unlocking Potential, one human and one business at a time. He’s on a mission to help 1 million values based leaders reach their potential with his coaching and his guidance. Stan, first of all, welcome back. I’m really glad to see you really good to talk to you again today. So thanks for coming back on the pod.
Stan Peake 0:52
Kevin, thank you so much. Honor is all mine. Super enjoyed just chatting with you last time. Hopefully the audience got something out of it. I know. I just loved hanging out with you. And just Yeah, I feel like we could chinwag all day.
Kevin Stafford 1:08
Yeah, that’s, as I so often, half joke half seriously reference. My one job is to keep an eye on the clock. Because I could easily turn this into a marathon, Tim Ferriss, three and a half hour interview style, which you know, maybe maybe it’s a podcast down the road, for which you’ll be one of the first guests. But for today, there’s one thing that you mentioned that of course, like green lights, flags went up in my head, as soon as you said it, you are working on a new book, which means I am certain you have a lot to say about that. And quite frankly, I want to know more about it. So tell me about what you’re working on.
Stan Peake 1:44
Appreciate it. Well, you and I are both passionate about leadership, obviously. It’s why we do what we do. And leadership and leadership development is kind of a table stakes for most coaching firms. They’ve got a leadership development program. Organizations need it. But if you really dig into the research, leadership development programs are viewed as somewhat ineffectual. We spend the money, we get various results. Some people love it. But the decision makers when they look at the bottom line, didn’t move the needle, didn’t move the needle on engagement, didn’t move the needle on our culture didn’t move the needle on retention or even profit. And unfortunately, in far too many cases, the answer is no. So long way of guiding to the next book is I wanted to understand why not. I wanted to understand leadership development, what we’re teaching, how we’re teaching it, why we’re teaching it, and what we maybe should be changing. And I’ll share one quick experience, I was speaking last year to a group of maybe, I don’t know, 40 or 50 energy executives. And we shared some research, which we’ll come back to, and someone put their hand up. I mean, like, it makes total sense, what you saying there’s numbers behind it. But those skills that we should be teaching. Would that not have been the case if you did your research 20 or 30 years ago. And that tells you right there, if the skills that we are supposed to be teaching, the skill gaps in the workforce haven’t moved than how we’re teaching, it is not making a difference?
Kevin Stafford 3:28
It’s it’s really simple. When you first when you frame it correctly, it’s just like every coaches know this in their bones, a well phrased question immediately yields the right answer to move forward with and that’s like, it’s basically you’re free, you’re framing things away. It’s like, Look, if, if this hasn’t been working the way we’ve been doing it for 2030 plus years, shall we consider that perhaps we could do it better, we could do it differently. And when you when you say it like that, it sounds so obvious, but we get stuck in our ruts just like everybody does. All sorts of reasons for this lack of self awareness, institutional momentum, lack of commitment, lack of funds, lack of attention, all sorts of different reasons for this, but yeah, being stuck in a rut like that. I don’t know if this is the right use of this phrase, but it begs the question, What could we be doing differently?
Stan Peake 4:16
Exactly. And it goes back to the definition of insanity, doing the same thing over and over again, hoping for different results. Before starting an executive coaching practice. I came via the world of fitness coaching and before that, I was a football player and played rugby and it typically if you go back to when I played and yes, it was almost the leather element days. There was there wasn’t strength coaches that were supporting your team. I think in university we had once but they’re really Junior High High School. When I was lifting weights. There was your high school football coach that was showing you the same basic exercises that their coach showed them that are probably Do the same exercises that Joe and Ben wieder developed in the 1950s. So there’s just this recycling of here’s how you do it with no thought to challenge what we’re doing. And now you’ve got, oh my gosh, you’ve got hockey players and football players taking ballet. And they do that because it helps with obviously footwork and balance and coordination, which are pretty obvious that we would need those for sports. So if you get some of the more resile, when I say resilient, I mean it not necessarily in the best way, sometimes that alpha male machismo sticks to things like deadlift and benchpress, and squats, and if they are now incorporating ballet, well, why are we not looking at leadership in the same sort of disruption, and innovative or progressive mindset?
Kevin Stafford 5:59
Bad habits can be just as if not more resilient than good ones, in fact, sticking
Stan Peake 6:05
in Go. So the book basically long way of going there is it’s documented research by reaching out to executives from all over the world. So far, I think we’ve we’re now into 26 countries, in terms of leaders, we’ve interviewed, and almost that many, I believe, 23 countries, in executive coaches we’ve reached out to, I wanted to understand the problem from two fronts, the leaders in their experience, and the coaches and what they feel would help make those leaders more successful based on their current practice or their years of experience. So we wanted to really have a very well formed idea of leadership development best practices, instead of recycling, what we were taught and what our coach showed us.
Kevin Stafford 6:57
Very, I mean, to the surprise of no one very smart to make sure to look at both ends of that relationship. So a lot of times, you obviously will tend to, like people will tend to favor the perspective that most closely adheres to their personal experience or who they are, who how they define themselves. But it’s important when you’re looking when you’re examining a relationship, what and what passes between two entities or two people, whatever, however you want to define it. And again, it sounds obvious when you say it, it’s important to look at both sides of that relationship, how both how both sides are coming to the relationship coming to the table, what they’re exchanging how they’re exchanging it, in what ways at what times the words, they’re using, the the constructs that they’re that they’re applying the analogies they lean to most most readily, all sorts of stuff like that. And just again, it’s simple when you say it out loud, like this. But yeah, you’re looking at both sides and seeing how the overall relationship can be improved. It’s almost like you’re looking at three things, you’re looking at the coach, you’re looking at the leader, and you’re looking at the relationship.
Stan Peake 7:52
Exactly. And we’re looking at just the organization and helping them understand that we are at a real crux of leadership transition. If we look at our generational cohorts, add by 12. By now, the research has been that by 2023. And, you know, I don’t know when this goes live, but here we are towards the end of January 2023. And so this year, I don’t know exactly when but at some point this year, there’ll be a shift, and more than 75% of the workforce in North America will be millennials or younger. Which is great. I mean, that echoes population demographics. The challenge with that is almost everyone in the position of leadership is a baby boomer or even sorry, a Gen X or, or even a baby boomer. So you’ve got this generation that is, you know, arrested reticent to retire. And there is not much of a transition or coaching or mentoring period with the generation that has to take over our military, our banks, our financial infrastructure, our schools, our hospitals, everything. We’re not giving them runway of learning through the ranks. We’re basically going to go Yeah, you know, I should have retired years ago, here’s the keys Good luck.
Kevin Stafford 9:17
Which is, that’s one way to delegate is the old scraping food off the plate method, which you know, some people get hit in the head, some stuff ends up on the floor, generally you just leave a mess but hey, that’s
Stan Peake 9:29
exactly. There’s food in the fridge. You’re hungry. I haven’t shown you how to cook but good luck. Really,
Kevin Stafford 9:38
it’s a great subject. I think about this a lot as as I myself am I’m I’m like late, mid to late period Gen X or myself. And I’ve been thinking a lot especially as I’ve kind of moved through my 40s about intergenerational communication and how how it’s so slept on and so overlooked how not just important intrinsic to society it is in order that there be a way of not making yourself like previous generations or modeling yourself upon future generations. But being able to communicate the values of each generation and the meaningful connections of each generation in a way that doesn’t obliterate or foster resentment or anything like that, that actually translates lessons learned, you know, virtues, established systems and processes that aren’t worth throwing out the you know, not throwing the baby out with the bathwater, there are some things we’ve been doing for a while, because they’re tried, they’re tested, and they’re actually really smart. Now, we should try and test them again, so that we understand the why. But there are certain things again, having that intergenerational communication pathway established and really looked at and examined and invested in and I want to hit that word again, invested in, that’s where I think that’s honestly, I think that’s where your work comes right into a gap that, quite frankly, we need as many bodies and as much attention as possible on this gap, because that, that communication is vital to where we want to go
Stan Peake 11:01
100% and read the book, don’t read the book, I want to make sure we leave something actionable and usable for the audience. And I find that Gen Xers, particularly the coaches, but more importantly, the leaders that are Gen Xers, every at least up until this point, every population demographic, from a leadership lens has had a defining challenge. You could look at wars, you could look at droughts, you could look at recessions, you know, obviously the.com, bubble burst, the the advent of the Internet, all kinds of things. And the the generational challenge for Gen Xers like you and I is to be bridge builders. So we just talked about, you know, the up and coming generation and how they’re not necessarily being mentored by the generation that came before us. And we are have the enviable or non enviable position of actually being a what we call a kind of a rebound generation. The baby boomers were a very large population demographic, the millennials are a very large population demographic, we are actually a smaller population demographic. And we have to connect the generation before us to the generation after us. That will be of course, every organization has its own unique challenges. But societally, that will be the defining challenge for Gen Xers is how to transition those best practices, the culture, the history, the legacy, and bring in the innovation and connect Old and young and leave the place better than we found it so that we set people up for success. Now the millennials there have a very different challenge, and likely, it’s still going to have legs from the pandemic, the work from home, you didn’t need the pandemic for the millennials to challenge the status quo of why do I need to be in an office to complete this work. So they may just be leading the disruption and innovation of truly work from anywhere, which I don’t think has manifested the degree of Well, I think domestically, we have to look at our skill set and make sure it is valuable. Because if we were doing manual labor jobs in the United States, and all of a sudden, we can figure out we can work from anywhere. Well, what’s to stop employers from going not just outside of their home state, but to Bangladesh to other places to get labor that can do same or similar job for a fraction of the direct cost. So a ton of challenges that the millennials will have to lead and manage. But before we get there, our job as Gen Xers will be to be bridge builders, which of course requires emotional intelligence, communication, coaching skills, you can already see how loaded this is. But that’s why I wanted to bring it up so that people can reflect how am I getting ahead of this?
Kevin Stafford 14:10
I love this topic so much. It’s something honest, honestly, it’s something I think about almost daily for as as I’m just like, reflecting on what my role is, personally in my life, in my in my family, amongst my friends in my professional life in the world in which I live. And I do I think a lot about being a bridge being a bridge builder. And I think about bridge is an excellent analogy because bridges are historically speaking among some of the highest achievements of human beings, some of some of the most wealth well remembered some of the most useful bridge building is crucial to culture Building Society building. One thing to remember about bridges is they get walked on a lot. And you’ve got if you’re not if you are not you have to traffic and a lot of weight and you’re going over some sometimes dangerous waters or some dangerous gaps. You have to be strong. You have to be ready and you have to stand the test of time and I feel like I liked this analogy a lot. Like I obviously I think about this one a lot when it comes to because I think that that emotional intelligence and that kind of wrapper resiliency is a requirement for for people like us, or at least in our age range, or anybody really, who intends on being being or building a bridge, you got to be you’re going to be beautiful, you’ll be and you’ll be admired for the achievement and for the purpose you serve, and you’re gonna get walked on.
Stan Peake 15:25
And criticized along the way. Does it make sense to build a bridge here? How much would that cost? I mean, use that analogy anyway, you will. You’re crazy on the way in, you’re a genius on the way out and not necessarily appreciated between those time horizons. But leadership is not something we undertake for credit. Obviously, we do it because we see a cause a purpose, a better future than we are committed to. And true leadership is not standing by idly in the face of a problem. We’re not okay with.
Kevin Stafford 15:59
Yeah, it’s not so much where do I serve? It’s how can I be of service? And if, for us, that looks like something different than it looks like for different generations, both older and younger? And if you ask the right question, it’s just like, it’s not where do I do my work? It’s how do I do my work best? And so you change the question, and you start getting different, better, more forward moving answers. And then comes the courage then comes the commitment to actually pursue those answers to the next question is there going to be asked for you and for the people who come after you it’s, it’s at some would call it a virtuous cycle, some might call it a vicious cycle, I think it could be either one or both at the same time.
Stan Peake 16:38
Absolutely. And the opportunities to serve as you put it are all around us. It can be so simple. My son plays hockey. And there’s a lot of volunteer roles. Every game, someone has to step up and work the clock, or, you know, the score sheet or the penalty box, and range in ease. Because we’re all parent volunteers. You know, we don’t do that for a living. We’re coaches, accountants, lawyers, doctors, whatever we do during the day. And it’s easy or easier not to do it. But it requires a leader to step up and just fill a void when there’s work to be done and no one’s doing it. And organizationally, that’s all around us. It’s way easier to complain that we’re not progressive, we’re not doing this stuff doesn’t get done around here. That’s easy. doing the work without being asked, or without being thinked. Or without understanding how it’s going to directly affect your compensation this week. That requires faith that requires leadership.
Kevin Stafford 17:40
I love I love that you you mentioned that you’re the hotkey because I think I’m a huge fan. And I think about it a lot. I’m a podcaster that I think you’ve been on this podcast before Michael Pacheco. He was he’s played semi pro hockey throughout his years, he loves it as well. And I frequently in this in this context, I think about the hockey assist the past that leads to the past that leads to the goal, and how I love that in hockey. That’s really one of the one of the few sports that has that. So elevated and institutionalized. Like you get credit for the past leads to the past that leads to the goal. And obviously there’s the past that leads to the past leads to the past, down and down and down and down. You get all five, you get all five people on it, it leads to something the team is celebrates, I’ve always really loved that soccer has that tool a little bit where it’s like you get so much you get institutional and organizational attention and admiration for being a connector for not just not necessarily being the spark or being the fire at the finish. But being being the circuit that connects the two are being a part of that circuit. And I think, I don’t know, I think about that a lot. And I think about how leaders are everywhere. There are gaps to move into everywhere. And everyone who chooses to do that is a leader
Stan Peake 18:51
anymore. I’m with you. I love hockey. So yeah, you still got me.
Kevin Stafford 18:56
I still lost you for about seven seconds. We’ll we’ll chip it out.
Stan Peake 19:01
I was saying I couldn’t agree more. A hockey is one of those sports that’s analogous to business because, you know, leading and lagging KPIs, and the company wants more revenue, more profit, but that’s not a strategy. That’s an outcome. So that’s a lagging KPI. The leading KPI might be sales, pipeline, sales, meetings, reach outs, whatever the case may be. Hockey’s the same way as of course, we want to score more goals either a team, but how do we do that? How many shots on goal have we taken? And even an individual’s plus minus rating? Do good things happen when Kevin’s on the ice? Do we score more goals or get scored on more often? It is such a fitting analogy, if we think about business is what levers can we control. We know what the goalposts are. We know what we’re trying to accomplish. But how do we get there? How do we our input activities lead to the greater likelihood of better outcomes, because that’s what we can control
Kevin Stafford 19:59
it Man, yeah, to the surprise of no one, I’m just kind of like, okay, can we talk? Can we do sports analogies and bridge building for another three hours because this is this is my this is like my meat and potatoes. I love this. But it’s in Time flew, it’s already been almost 25 minutes we’ve been chatting so I will give you a chance to do did you become a name? Or is it still is it still in the formulation phase,
Stan Peake 20:20
we’re just going back and forth with that with the publisher. So depending on the turnaround time here, I will leave it as a bit of a tease, because we’re down to two potential titles. And I don’t want to say the wrong one. So I’ll make sure that in follow up, I give you that. So in the show notes, we have the title, and we should be moving to publication pretty darn quick. I do expect it’s a decent turnaround time. So very much appreciated. And again, I didn’t come on here just to say pump the book. Really, I look at every one of these conversations as first and foremost, a chance to connect with someone I respect and admire. And second of all, a chance to just share wisdom because I learned so much when I was starting my coaching practice, from listening to podcasts just like this one, and from other coaches. Why not? I mean, we live in the age of information, you can shrink your learning curve, by listening to great conversations, hopefully, this being one that serves others,
Kevin Stafford 21:21
I think so I knowing our audience, I feel like this is gonna be it’s gonna be real juicy stuff, just just like we both got really excited and animated when we started talking. I think it’ll be the same for the listeners too. And also, rather than letting me know what the title of the book is, obviously, it’s gonna go on your website, I presume you’re probably gonna pull it up on LinkedIn. So I’ll just make sure that I tease that the title is down to two. And if you want to know the final title, go to, you know, stand peak LinkedIn? Or do you have a website that you’d like to direct people to yet or
Stan Peake 21:50
yeah, get success faster.com. And if they go there, then all of our coaches bios are there. We actually have grown to I think 34 coaches now. And my it’ll be get success faster.com/stan Peak. But again, I’ll include that in the show notes to send to you so that people can know exactly where to go to purchase the book, or I love to make sure I share free content as well. I hate it when someone is only in sales mode all the time.
Kevin Stafford 22:22
It’s there, it’s okay to profit from your work. It’s in fact a requirement of the work continuing. And to just find ways to serve just to find ways to give to open doors. Yeah. So Stan, this has been great. I’m totally going to slide into your DMS on LinkedIn and invite you back in a few months, maybe maybe like spring, early summer. Do you have a release date for the book? I forgot to ask that totally. Is it it’s going to be 2023? Probably, yes,
Stan Peake 22:47
definitely. 2023 at a pier marking that it’ll probably be three months, my experience stuff can go wrong. So let’s push it out. Less than six months. So I would say that we’re at this point looking at a summer 2023 release.
Kevin Stafford 23:03
I’m gonna have to have you back on then. We’ll talk we’ll talk about the book as fact.
Stan Peake 23:08
Well put it this way. I don’t know if I have a standing invite. But you’ve got a standing Yes to accept. I’ll come back on the show anytime you’re happy to happy.
Kevin Stafford 23:18
I love to hear. All right. I should let you go as our times about to about to run out. Stan, thank you so much for coming back and talking to me. I had I had a blast.
Stan Peake 23:26
How’s it Alright, thank you, my friend.
Kevin Stafford 23:29
And to the audience. You know what’s out there? Listen to our previous episode. Listen to this one. Look for that book title coming very, very soon to a link in the show notes near you. And we’ll talk to you again here real soon.
