Kevin Stafford 0:00
Hello everyone, and welcome to another fine episode of the conversations with coaches podcast, I say it’s gonna be a fine episode, I have complete faith and trust that it will be because my guests are so great. That’s that’s how I know I’ve got a good podcast not because I have a great host, but because I have great guests, and today should be no exception. This is another person that I’m meeting for the first time here as I’m about to interview them for the podcast, I would like to introduce you to Harlan hammock. Heartland is a highly respected and sought after business and leadership coach. He specializes in helping business owners, I’ll put this in air quotes, if you can hear it turn common sense into common practice is love that phrase, by systematizing their business improving employee engagement and building world class teams, heartland. There’s also other aspects of your personal professional life that I would love to talk to you we talked a little bit about your digital nomadism I’m sure that’ll come up in the course of the conversation. But for now, thank you for being here. I am glad to have you,
Harlan Hammack 0:54
Kevin, I’m looking forward to the conversation. Thank you, sir.
Kevin Stafford 0:57
So let’s let’s do that. Let’s go back to the beginning. Go back to the I was born and and and this getting that child. Let’s go back to the your beginnings or your superhero origin story. As a coach, how did you? How did you realize that coaching is what you wanted to do? How did you maybe realize that coaching is something you were already doing. And just you got a name for it? Did anybody like at a key moment a key mentor a key influence a key relationship kind of framing things for you in such a way that has led to that spark of you becoming the coach you are today? How did you get your your start? Where did you begin? Like,
Harlan Hammack 1:33
I just I love helping people. And I always have for about the last 2527 years or so I was a management consultant organizational change management. So helping companies that were undergoing some major change or merger acquisition, process reengineering and restructuring of the business, big software implementation, a new product line, they’re launching anything that impacted the people process or technology. My job was to work with the leadership team to help them understand the impacts of that change, to communicate the change, and then lead their people through the change. The goal was them as productive after as they were before. So doing that for almost 2527 years, that meant getting on a plane every Monday and every Friday. And after 25 years is like riding the bus. You know, you see the same people every week in and out and in and out. And I just got tired of riding the bus. So I told my wife when I’m done with this project, I want to I want to stop and she goes, Do you want to retire as well? No, not exactly. But I want to do what I really enjoy, which is working with leaders to help them be better communicators, better decision makers, more courageous leaders. And so that’s why I decided I’d stay home and be a business coach. And that’s how I kind of got into it. And just loving it. It’s been about six years now. I think I’m just having a great time.
Kevin Stafford 2:45
That’s lovely. I love that there’s this critical mass that occurs as like certain you don’t really necessarily you haven’t verbalized it or it hasn’t hasn’t congealed into a proper question yet. But you could like do you feel like a change coming where like, I’m good at this, this is perfectly acceptable, I enjoy being good at it, I enjoy helping people in this way. And you start to kind of boil it down a little bit like, Well, okay, I enjoy helping people. Is this the best way that I can do that? And then that starts to lead to other kinds of questions where it’s like, well, also, what’s this? Am I really going about things in a way that are it’s fulfilling for me, but also, you know, generating the kind of impact I want? Do I have the kind of life that I want? Am I Am I living by example, you know, also that comes up comes up a lot too. And then you just come to a point where you’re like, you know, I think it might be time for a change. And I love the here wives questions like Do you want to retire? You’re like, No,
Harlan Hammack 3:34
exactly. Yeah, we always talk, retirement, you know, people have this image of retirement, you’re just sitting, you know, maybe on the on the balcony, you know, looking out over the golf course, or something and drinking a blue drink with an umbrella. And it’s like, no, that’s not what I want to do. I want to continue to do things I want to be viable. I want to help people. And one things I really, really like doing is helping these leaders be better leaders, you know, you see the light bulbs come on behind their eyes, when you tell them, Oh, here’s what worked for this company, maybe we can do the same for you. And it just, it lights them up. And being working with smaller and midsize companies, you get to see the change happen, you know, on the big implementation projects that I worked on, you would work for months and months and months, turn it over to somebody who worked at the client, right? And then you’d leave and you never got to see the everything come to fruition. Now I can work with these people and see on a day to day basis see how their business is growing and thriving. And it’s it’s rewarding. I love it.
Kevin Stafford 4:29
It’s such a it’s so it’s so difficult to find the same level of satisfaction with the larger companies or with the larger clients because like you said, yeah, there’s just there’s it’s just the the economies of scale and like how how that how that kind of works, it’s really hard to not just witness but experience that the change that you’re contributing to and it’s just there’s just there’s something very enriching and fulfilling and inspiring about being being there like in the garden, you know, with you know, with your with your knees and your hands dirty make and then watching things grow and then being being there when you know the you know, A family feasts on all the work that you all putting together, it’s just, it really is. I mean, it’s the stuff and I so frequently that that analogy of light comes up, almost almost universally. It’s like the light dog light bulb going off the light dawning on someone’s face, and just how there’s nothing, there really is nothing like that. Nothing else like that, I should
Harlan Hammack 5:19
say exactly. Exactly. Well, let’s, uh,
Kevin Stafford 5:22
let’s talk a little bit about your, your the nuts and bolts, the day to day, what you do, what your practice is built on. And I like to ask this question sort of almost like as like an interrogation? Like, who did you know, what did you know? And when did you know it? Different kind of two part question who? Who do you coach primarily? And that’s just like, what kinds of businesses what kinds of you have industries that you tend to do a lot of work in? Do you have different people at different levels, you tend to work with a lot, and how you coach them? I mean, that’s obviously the full spectrum, the one to one, the small team, the small group, the larger group, the keynote speeches, the coursework, the workshops, the books, all of the above. So yeah, who do you coach? And how do you coach them these days?
Harlan Hammack 6:05
All the above, when I came in, off the road, I started networking, and one of the first networking groups that I got involved in, there were a lot of the skilled trades and service groups, right. So you had the plumbers and electricians, HVAC, you had accountants, and things like that insurance brokers. So working with a lot of the service industries, that’s kind of where I’ve got my start, I’ve helped other people, that’s really the sweet spot. And I’ve been helping a lot of the skilled trades. Because these are guys that are technically phenomenal at what they do. They love what they do. So they start a business. But really what they create is a job for themselves, you know, because they don’t know how to set the business up how to how to put in the processes and everything like that. So going in and helping them kind of build that foundation, to where their business can grow and thrive, rather than just growing and then falling apart or growing. We put it together and build it on purpose. And that’s what I like helping them do. So those are the people I work with. Generally, it’s one to one coaching, I’m starting to do a lot more Group Type coaching now and mastermind groups to help them because, yes, I can sit with you, your leadership team helped you, you know, put your business together and really start growing. What a lot of times hearing that there’s somebody else who’s experiencing the same problems and struggles that you are gives you a little bit of comfort. And when you hear what they’ve tried, and you go wow, can I try that my business, it opens up new doors for you. So I like the group coaching aspect of it. And so I’m trying to do a lot more of the group coaching. But yeah, I’ve helped other people in other industries and everything like that, but really is just getting in with the business owner to say what are you struggling with right now? And how can I make the biggest impact right now? And then we fix that? And then what can we do next? And just keep going.
Kevin Stafford 7:42
It’s lovely, it really is. So many, so many people who I know and love and respect, like really sharp, intelligent people emotionally intelligent, very capable people. And they get to that point where they want to start their own business. And they just they trip over the same old branches, the same of the same old stumbling blocks that hit everybody, because you’re right that that change from being great at what you do to being great at running a business that does what you do. It’s just your skill set the skills that are required, the skill sets you need and how you need them refined and what you need do, it’s just it’s so different. And yet, so informed by everything that got you to where you are, that got you to the point where you wanted to start your own business. And, again, you’re a transition agent, a change agent, you’re there to help me like, Okay, this is how you are going to be successful doing this, this is how you’re not going to create a second separate job for yourself that you don’t like as much. This is how we’re going to translate what you love about what you do into your business, your practice your efforts. I just, it’s just so we can’t have enough people working in that space. Because I feel like there’s still so many people who who trip and fall and stumble there. And so the more the more help, the better. I’m so glad that’s a place where you focus.
Harlan Hammack 8:46
Exactly. And my background in the organizational change helps. You know, there’s that everybody says people hate change. It’s not really true, we experienced change all the time. If we understand why it’s changing and understand what the impact is going to be and how we’re going to be after we’ll make a change. Right? So that’s what I try to help them do. The business owners understand kind of what’s coming out what’s going to be different for them. But look at all the opportunities it may afford you once we do this, and then they’re open to the change whatever I need to do, just point the way.
Kevin Stafford 9:15
Once they get a taste of what real good, like good change, the kind of change that is the lifeblood of existence, once they get it realized. Oh, yeah, I’ll take some more of that, please. Exactly. Also, I love I love the way you identified it and group coaching how you didn’t exactly say it this way. But how like the sum ends up being greater than the parts. Because you get everybody in the room together you get these similar but distinct experiences doing some of the same kinds of things and you just basically as as the as the coach as the guide, you just sort of prompt and you’ve got you start the conversation and you nudge here and there and you just watch. We were talking about that light that goes off the light bulb dawning on their face, and you start to watch that light go between the people that you’re coaching in the group, and that that is that’s another one to wear or there’s just nothing like that that is really something to watch. Basically, the people that you’re coaching start coaching each other. What’s a reciprocity might not see.
Harlan Hammack 10:09
Yeah, it’s reciprocity, right? You come in asking for help. And then when somebody is asking for help, and you have some knowledge, you want to share it with, like, wow, this is what I did. This is how I got through it. So So you do that old saying that the rising tide lifts all boats. We’re all in this together, we’re all struggling together, we’re all making the same decisions, and maybe some of the same mistakes. Let’s share with what we’ve learned. You know, I’m a big proponent of learn from other people’s mistakes. You know, somebody once said, you’ll never live long enough to make them all yourself. So learn from other people.
Kevin Stafford 10:39
Thankfully, we’re all out here making mistakes all the time. So there’s plenty of learning material. I know I’m producing material. Lots of material. Ah, well, weirdly enough, I don’t know why I just my brain just did this. But speaking of like producing material, we’re on a podcast right now you have a podcast called the courage to lead a talk a little bit about that, like who you have on what? Who you who you talk to what you talk to them about. So talk a little bit about your podcast. I’m curious. I haven’t missed any episodes myself yet.
Harlan Hammack 11:05
Oh, you will?
Kevin Stafford 11:06
I will. Crucially,
Harlan Hammack 11:07
it’s a basically an asset question. What does it take to be a courageous leader? Where do you find the courage to escape the nine to five to create your own success? That can be scary for some people? Where did you find that courage? Where do you find the courage to overcome the setbacks like the divorce, bankruptcy, illness, death? How do you get through things like that? I’ve been interviewing entrepreneurs, civic leaders, military leaders, CEOs, authors, all kinds of people about where they found that courage. Where did it come from, you know, one of the first experiences had some amazing stories. One kid who got accused of attempted murder, went to jail for six years. It wasn’t him, nobody came forward to say it wasn’t him, you know. But he got he got falsely accused of it spent six years in jail came out, he could have been, he’s got to turn to the dark side. But he didn’t, he came out a stronger, better person. And now he’s coaching other people. He’s a TEDx speaker. He’s got books out and everything like that. And he’s made something out of his life, had another guy who was an NFL football player, who, after retiring from the NFL, he opened up a business construction up in the northeast, 15 million annual revenue, and it all fell apart. And he lost everything due to his arrogance. His words, not mine, his arrogance, lost it all, in at one point, ended up being a janitor at $8 an hour to try to build his way back up. And again, TEDx speaker, multiple book, author and coach, he’s just phenomenal. But the stories of people who just find themselves in these situations where most of us would curl up in a little fetal ball in the corner. And they pull themselves they pick themselves up, either it’s something my dad said to me before, or I had a football coach who said this, or I’ve seen other people that experienced this, and I know if they can make it, I can make it. And that’s one of the goals I want from the podcast is it somebody somewhere will listen to the podcast and say, you know, if they can do it, I can do it.
Kevin Stafford 13:01
Examples you use there, sorry, I was just I’m, I was reflecting on that. And I was like, there, it seemed like a meat. Like the thing that jumped out to me that just like leapt out of your voice and into my brain was just how much of their courage was their persistence, just refused to give up. It’s like, and so you could you can go to some low places when you refuse to give up. And that’s why the curling up into the fetal position is so appealing, because then you just you don’t, you can just like shove your fingers in your ears and close your eyes and just, you know, try to just not think about that, but like, persisting. That’s, it requires so much courage because you’d have to you have to live in those moments, those those lower moments where you’re like, you know what, I am going to get through this. ears open, eyes open head up, we’re going to find a way through. That’s really what courage is so much courage. Yeah, yeah, really
Harlan Hammack 13:49
persistence and grit, which is what courage is, is knowing Yeah, I this is what I have to do to get where I want to be. And I know it’s probably going to suck. But this is what I need to do. And I’m just going to do it. And you know, you get knocked down, you get back up and keep going.
Kevin Stafford 14:06
There’s one thing that we talked about a little bit before I hit record that I kind of want to go back to a little bit because I’m I’m fascinated by, obviously in the last few years, a lot of change has occurred, a lot of change has been forced on people and a lot of different ways. And one way that that change has occurred for a lot of people professionally is in the sort of remote hybridization of work, really just the way that work gets done. I think we’re in we’re still in the midst of a great reconsideration of how we do what we do and you have relatively recently within the last couple of years or so committed to the digital nomad lifestyle and have had great success thus far. And so I kinda want to I want to talk to you I think we talked a little bit about this already, but I kind of talk to you on Mike about this. So how, how did that what prompted you to make that decision and how has it been going so far?
Harlan Hammack 14:53
Well, my wife and I both work remotely like a lot of people did during you know the pay endemic. And we’ve worked with people all over the world we always have we both were consultants. So we had project teams all over the we work with. So we were used to being online and working. My niece and nephew are out on the West Coast of the US and they’re traveling, doing basically that Nomad roaming. And they told us about it. My wife and I were sitting there over the holiday saying, You know what, we don’t have anything holding us back. We don’t have kids, we don’t have pets. Pretty much debt free. Why are we sitting here in Atlanta when we could be doing this from the mountains or the beach or anywhere? I know a lot of people have had them on the podcast, that are traveling the world. They’re in Portugal, they’re in Argentina, they’re all over and living inexpensively and still kind of doing their job. And we thought, why can’t we do the same thing. So we did, we sold everything, put stuff in storage, and we loaded up our clothes and our computers in our jeep. And off we went. So we’re traveling around the US working we’re staying in Airbnb properties, because they have everything that we need, good internet access, and we’re in. And so we’ve been doing it for just over a year now just celebrated our Roma Versary on March 1.
Kevin Stafford 16:04
I love that I’m adopting that word. I’m sure it’s existed already. I’m sure you didn’t coin it, but I like I like that quite a bit that room aversary. And also, I just love I, I really do love and admire how, how that choice and how your execution of it demonstrates really how how little you need to not just survive, but to thrive, personally and professionally. This like, you need like a reliable computer, a reliable vehicle and an internet connection. It’s like there’s when it really comes down to it, the things that we want is just like, wow, you’re maybe struggling, maybe you’ve gone through great loss or been falsely accused, like the the things that life throws at, you can really knock it knock you down. But the things that you need to get back up again, are often just if there’s a very simple, where it’s just like, you just need the perseverance to push through and the courage to keep your keep your head up. As you push through whatever you’re pushing through. You just need the basic tools of of not just survival, but thrival. Let’s not use that word of thriving, I prefer Roma Versary better than thrival. But I just I love how basically you put your money where your mouth is in a very real way and you live a very a life that’s informed by everything that you teach, which I just I mean, I find that to be true frequently, with with coaches very genuine, very practice what you preach. And I don’t know, I suppose thank you for for being for demonstrating all the principles and all the practices that you teach everybody else. And yeah, I’m just I don’t know, I’m quite pleased with the life that you’ve built for yourself. And the the way in which you go about impacting change in the world. It’s just it’s very, it’s inspiring to me, I don’t know if I’m maybe getting lost in my sauce a little bit. But I’m quite inspired by by how much success you found in the in the work you’re doing and how you’re going about doing it. So that’s just awesome. Thank you, I think.
Harlan Hammack 17:45
Yeah, and I love doing it. I love doing it remotely. Helpful. I can be anywhere, anytime for anybody. Right. And the Internet helps us do that. So yeah. And we’re just just enjoying life, getting out and actually seeing parts of the country that we haven’t been able to experience before.
Kevin Stafford 18:00
Lovely, lovely. Well, speaking of being being there for people anywhere, anytime. There’s another two part question for you. Where can people find out more about you just find out more about your business what you’re doing in the world? And where can people best connect with you if they want to not just find out about you, but find out how you can work together? Maybe so yeah, where can people learn more about you, and then maybe start a conversation with you
Harlan Hammack 18:22
learn more about me probably by website. So my website is IB for E dash coaching.com. So it’s letter I letter B, the number four letter E dash coaching.com. And then I’m I’m active on LinkedIn and Facebook. So you can look me Harlan hammock on either LinkedIn or Facebook or IB for E coaching.
Kevin Stafford 18:42
Also, not I keep complimenting you, whatever, it’s fine. I love your name. Like when I saw your name pop up, I was like, That is a fantastic name. And I was like, surely the person behind this name has to be just as dynamic and awesome as the name and and sure enough you were. So you have one last compliment before you go. Thank you for being wonderfully named. And thank you for backing that up with an excellent and excellent pursuit of life. I’m pleased to have gotten to talk with you. And I would love to talk with you again. At some point. I feel like there’s so much meat on the bone of the things that we talked about and what we’re doing. could talk about courageous leadership all day, quite frankly, dive all the way into that. But yeah, thank you for being on with me today. And thank you for chatting with me. And thank you for doing what you do.
Harlan Hammack 19:24
Absolutely. No, absolutely. Maybe I can convince you to be on the courage lead.
Kevin Stafford 19:28
That might be a very strong possibility. We’ll have to talk about that offline or talk about that post recording. So yeah, thank you, Harlan, thank you to the audience for listening. By the way. Harlan is pretty pretty fantastic, very easy to talk to, as you might imagine, a successful coach would be so do yourself a favor, connect with Harlan, reach out, see if there might be something you can do together something he might be able to do for you. And in the meantime, later on, actually very soon, I should say. We’ll talk to you again.
