Carole Stizza – Why Perfectionism Isn’t Always A Bad Thing | Conversations with Coaches | Boxer Media

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Carole Stizza | Conversations with Coaches | Boxer Media

In this episode, I get to dive deep into the world of leadership with the incredible Carole Stizza. We unpack the myth of perfectionism in leadership and delve into the necessity of developing great leaders. Our conversation is an eye-opening journey into the complexities and nuances of effective leadership in today’s world.

We discuss the concept of perfectionism and its relationship with leadership, the importance of developing great leaders, and the impact of leaders on the retention of talent within organizations. We also explore the myth that leaders are born, debunking this notion and highlighting the responsibility of leaders in developing their successors.

Don’t miss out on more thought-provoking discussions by checking out our website for additional Conversations with Coaches episodes. If you want more insights from Carole Stizza, connect with her on LinkedIn and visit her website.

To learn more about Carole:
https://www.relevant-insight.com/
https://www.linkedin.com/in/carolestizza/

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[00:00:00] Kevin Stafford: Hello everyone and welcome to another episode of the Conversations with Coaches podcast. I’m your host, Kevin, and as you can probably tell from the delight in my voice, I have already been having a great time talking with Carol Stizza. She is a repeat guest here on the Conversations with the Coaches podcast.

We just fell right into an exactly the kind of conversation. You have a coach to have you have a coach for someone who can just go right into the deep end can, play in the broad end, just can splash in the water at any level, we probably recorded like three podcasts worth of gold nuggets already in our 15 minute conversation, but let me reintroduce Carol to you and then we’re just going to just let you into our conversation that we were already having the already in progress.

So Carol, as you might remember, as an executive leadership coach, and she has spent over 25 years studying the differences between corporate military leadership, identifying the best practices of both. She uses a proven process to elevate her client’s clarity in claiming what sets them apart from other leaders, defining their next steps and leading with more influence, more creativity.

And more cure, courage, I almost said curiosity, I almost slipped that in there, which I think fits right in in next to courage. Carol, I’ll say, I said it before I hit record, I’ll say it again for the world to hear. It is great to talk to you again, I must say. It is

[00:01:22] Carole Stizza: great to be back. I’ve always enjoyed these conversations because I come away learning as much as I hope to convey.

So it’s just a win.

[00:01:30] Kevin Stafford: Didn’t agree more. Now we were getting on to the topic of leadership myths. And I feel like this is some very fertile territory, especially maybe not especially now, but I find it even more relevant today than I ever have here in 2023. As there’s just so many assumptions about what makes a good leader and what doesn’t.

And I, we were talking specifically about perfectionism. And I feel like that opened the door to a lot of other conversations about the way in which we view what we’re calling, at least at the start of this conversation, perfectionism, and how it actually manifests in leadership, how it manifests in accomplishment and success in the world.

So let’s maybe talk a little bit about the the myth and the mystery of perfectionism and how it applies to leadership and how it’s always applied to leadership, but how it applies today.

[00:02:15] Carole Stizza: The myth is perfectionism and control freaks, if I were to put them together, is bad. And I think that’s the first thing we started on no, There’s really some good that is there, or we wouldn’t become these wonderful people who need to control certain things for our comfort because it allows us to go after the big stuff.

And. Perfectionism has a really brilliant strength to it because we set high standards for ourself. We set high expectations for our team. The downside only rears its head when we take it too far, like any strength. That’s pushed in the wrong context. It then is seen as a weakness. So I think the brilliant part of coaching really wicked smart and high achieving leaders is to give them credit where credit is due of how they got there and then start to recognize where it’s holding them back next.

Because we are humans and creatures of habits. So we’ll go if this got me here, then I need to hold on to that because that’s a good thing. I’m like, no, that old saying, what got you here, isn’t going to get you there. That’s like really true,

It’s like a good workout when you’re going for a new physical goal. You’re going to get sore as you are on your way. You’re going to have to break down muscle tissue to build it stronger. We have to break down the things that you used to control that you don’t need to anymore. We have to break down the things that you hold as a gold standard.

You might have to look at it and get a little messy and create the platinum standard in a different way. .

[00:03:56] Kevin Stafford: I like that that, that’s a very healthy version of moving the goalpost. It’s important to, to move things forward. Like I, I like that gold to platinum. That’s, it’s like you think of the gold standard, you’re like, I’ve arrived.

But the thing is that nobody ever really tells you, but everybody knows is you never arrive. You’re always just still going. It’s still going on. And so it’s important to be able to go, what’s my platinum look like? Yeah. What’s the next precious metal beyond that look like in my life? Yeah. And how do I get there?

[00:04:23] Carole Stizza: And people sometimes will double down on their tendencies. If we’re going to talk about perfectionism that what got them there, there’s going to work harder. They’re going to go, Oh no. What if I told you that you have to work less doing that and hand it off now? Oh, painful.

So that you can do something new and challenging and scary. And they look at me like, where, when did I sign up for that? I go when you took the raise and the promotion and all the good stuff that kind of came with the title, they forgot to tell you. Your job changes . And I think that’s always a great point to introduce to leaders who are trying to develop leaders.

You need to ask ’em if they’re ready to take care of people. . ‘ cause if they’re not, they might hate leadership. . And do you have a parallel track? Can you let somebody who is an expert in I. T. continue to be an expert in I. T. but not lead people while somebody else who can’t wait to lead people will always refer to the expert for all that expert information as they grow a team.

And people look at me like I’m nuts sometimes because sometimes we’re such a flat hierarchical organization or we’re so lean and we’re so efficient. That we forget that people don’t maybe want to take care of people next,

[00:05:42] Kevin Stafford: or wouldn’t be really terribly great at it or just don’t want to like they might be okay at it, but it’s not something they want to do.

And there’ll be, there are a few things more poisonous to an organization than unhappy leadership.

[00:05:53] Carole Stizza: True. And so there’s. There’s ways to test that water. If somebody says, Ooh, I want to be a leader. Yes. I want to get the title. I wanted to pay raise. Ooh, I can’t wait for that. You can actually put them in a leadership development program and see how they handle this new information.

Oh, I’m supposed to do that. They can change their mind before they’re promoted there. And now you have to talk to them. Like, how do I keep you? How do we reward your talent? How do we reward your expertise? That’s what a parallel track offers. And It’s a, for some people, it’s a very foreign concept for other organizations.

It’s not. They know I’ve got to keep these experts. I need this brain power. I need this organizational history to stay in this organization. So we’ll just have an expert track and we’ll have a leadership track. Some people will hear this and go, ah, it’s just not a reality for me. Okay. What is not bad leadership?

So how do you want to, how do you want to do it? Which is why I offer a virtual leadership, um, development type cohort. That they can come in and in ones and Tuesdays from an organization and test it just the waters like this. I’m learning all this. How do I apply it? I go. I can help you take this back to performance development.

Let’s just. What’s one thing you want to be judged on, measured on as a leadership preparation. Let’s communicate with your boss that you’re trying this out so that you have a better conversation of what you’re ready really to do so that you stay healthy and happy and the people you get to lead next are going to be really happy to have you as their leader.

Whether it’s a manager, director, whatever title it is, there are ways to test that water that people don’t recognize or realize is available to

[00:07:43] Kevin Stafford: them. That’s talk about a myth bust right there. So many people, so many business owners and managers will just their version of leadership development or leadership discovery is just, Bobby or, Suzanne, they’re just, they want that promotion.

Let’s just, let’s toss them in. And it’ll work itself out. It’s just it’s almost like this sort of like washing your hands of what’s going to happen. It’s just oh they’ll either sink or swim. And I’m like, oh man, we have so many better ways to go about. I, and it’s two parts.

It’s identifying. Good leaders as there are, as they’re becoming good leaders and developing. It’s not, or it’s, and because sometimes someone can have great leadership potential, you can get dropped into the wrong waters at the wrong time and the wrong way with the wrong team and the wrong, kind of delegation with no help, just figure it out in the dark there their work that got them there suffers.

They suffer as a leader. They don’t develop. And so all that potential is just squandered. And that’s how I just like I can almost feel it like in my chest right now as I talk about it because I’m like, I’m thinking of people I’ve known who have found themselves in those, those dark valleys where it’s just I thought I was on the right track.

It felt good right up until it didn’t. And then all of a sudden I was feeling around in the dark and I’m not as good at my job as I used to be. Whereas they were never really told that they were actually moving into a different job. I love that you, I love that you identified that as you move up the quote unquote ladder.

And again, that’s another myth right there. You busted casually that it’s a ladder, this flat ladder. It’s just there, they’re moving up and they’re thinking that things are just going to happen and it’s wait a minute, there’s. There’s help to be had here. There’s identifying characteristics, there’s identifying potential, there’s developing that potential, in intentional ways, in focused ways, there’s so much that we can do that some people are doing, and they’re embracing it, and they’re seeing the results, and some people need that myth busted for them.

Yeah,

[00:09:34] Carole Stizza: people leave bosses, not organizations.

[00:09:37] Kevin Stafford: Said.

[00:09:37] Carole Stizza: Said. And, and we keep hearing it and they go yeah whatever. And I go, if you’ve promoted somebody, or you’ve hired somebody from the outside that has all these acclimations or accreditations that you want, that you think you’re going to be able to optimize, and you just plunk them in without introduction, buy in, testing, In whatever ways that you want to do that and people underneath them start leaving either you did that because you wanted those people to leave.

Which is really passive aggressive, so let’s just put that on hold for another talk. But maybe you didn’t, you put them in charge of a talented team so that person could elevate that team and people start to leave and those were not the people you wanted to leave. It’s the person you put there, that is the reason they’re leaving.

And so you need to go, wow, maybe I didn’t do this correctly. Let’s go back and redress this. Maybe you will. Maybe you won’t. And I think another myth that I’m continually, it’s not a myth. How would I want to, I think it’s a perspective that leaders forget. I think the myth is that leaders are born.

They’re natural and they’ll just, given the right recipe, they’ll become the best leadership cake you’ve ever produced. And no here’s a mic drop for you. You’re responsible for replacing yourself and the replacement needs to be better than you. That’s your job as a leader, a CEO, an executive suite, a director.

Your job is to look at your people. Believe in them, challenge them and develop them to replace you so that when the opportunity comes for you, you know exactly who’s going to fit in there and allows you to go to the next big cool thing without worrying that you’ve left, a gap in organization.

And so a leader needs to be almost altruistic. Philanthropic, so to speak, in getting people ready to stand in their place without feeling it as competition, because if they’re really good at developing their replacement, they’re going to be even better at that next level of strategic decision making.

And it’s interesting to get to coach people at different levels of brilliance, because. They can be really brilliant and not have the emotional IQ to care about the people or they have a lot of emotional IQ and yet still feel competitive or possessive, possession, or no, possessive is better word, possessive about their power where they are and don’t want to give it up, even though they’ve got people they know could do it, but they’re really They’re almost too scared to move to the next level because they are happy here and it’s, we’re, we all hit a point of, can I just coast for a few hot minutes, please, where I’m at and then grow.

And you have to say, yeah, you can, but it’s gotta be communicated. Is this the right time for me to celebrate and be happy where I’m at so that I can start to see where the next growth challenge is going to be for me, and I’m ready for it. And I think we forget to help people who have again back to that controlling and perfectionism.

They’re so used to the hustle that for them, taking a moment to celebrate becomes complacency or weakness. And that’s a myth. You’ve got to bust. Yeah. Oh, yeah. If you want your people to celebrate a win, they have to see you celebrating a win. And you have to be the person who points out that they have a win to celebrate on top of you billing, being willing to celebrate with them and celebrate yours.

You have to walk. The talk at every single aspect that you want them to do, and you have to build in time to celebrate for a team to bond for a team to know why they show up at work every day for a team to recognize the heart that you have in an organization so that they will stay people follow and stay with great leaders.

If they believe the great leaders attached to a great organization, if not, they just follow the leader wherever the leader goes next. That’s telling to yeah,

[00:14:00] Kevin Stafford: they just they put it on cruise control.

[00:14:02] Carole Stizza: Yeah, there’s a lot of assumptions.

[00:14:05] Kevin Stafford: I just I could do this all day but, and I will sum it up very briefly by saying this, the core of this, it’s very simple, relatively speaking, once you call it out, it’s a lot of, it sounds like common sense as you put words to it.

It is complex and challenging to execute, even at small scale, let alone medium or large scale. If anyone wants some help with that, maybe some help that, whose first name rhymes with Schmerl, where can they find out, where can they find out more about you as an executive coach, more about who you are as a leader, who you are in the world, and where can they best connect with you if they wanted to either have a conversation like this or have a more relevant conversation about how, what you could do for them.

Thank you

[00:14:46] Carole Stizza: for offering me that space to of course, but that out there, I love connecting on LinkedIn. So please look me up on LinkedIn. It’s Carol with an E and is spelled just like pizza, but not with a P it’s S. T. I. Z. A. But I’ve named my company relevant insight because I think everybody wants to understand how to be more relevant.

Where they are, and so relevant insight dot com is my website. They can find out more about the leadership cohort that I’m starting in 2024. they can have conversations with me. They can connect with me directly. And I love to sit down and just learn where people feel challenged about these ideas so that we can actually start breaking a lot more myths.

and giving people credit for what they do know and see where they want to grow next.

[00:15:35] Kevin Stafford: The thing about breaking myths is that you’ll never it’s amazing what on the other side of those broken myths. You didn’t realize that you were walled in. You thought you were looking at the horizon when really you were looking at the brick wall, five feet in front of you.

And when you get that knocked down, it is amazing what seems possible. Yep. It is. It is. Carol, I, you’ve already made my day. I still have lots to do today, but this conversation has got me thinking in all sorts of great directions. It’s got me feeling in all the right ways. I know I said it at the beginning.

I’m going to say it again here at the end. Thank you for spending some time with me today. It’s just so good to talk with you and it’s so good to just, to know that you are out there in the world doing this kind of work. You have dedicated yourself to it. Just I find myself in this space at the end of so many podcast episodes because I get to talk to people like you and I’m so encouraged and it makes me so optimistic, which is, maybe I’m a little pie in the sky about certain things, but I just, I, we’re on the right track in a lot of different ways.

And I just wanted to thank you not just for sharing some time with me today again, but also for doing what you do in the world. I just think it’s important and impactful. And I’m just I’m just excited that you exist.

[00:16:40] Carole Stizza: Likewise, I’m just going to ditto that about you, because without podcasts like yours, people don’t have this opportunity to

take these moments in the day to learn or hear about different perspectives, even to plant a seed for them to think on their own. And I love the podcasting world because of that. It’s like the radio you get to curate for your day and I’m glad you’re part of it.

[00:17:02] Kevin Stafford: Okay. That’s enough smoke being blown.

I will talk to you again soon. This has been too much fun not to do again. And to the audience out there, you know what to do next. There’ll be links, Carol’s name spelled correctly in the show notes, find her on LinkedIn, find her on the website, find us here on the podcast again soon. Thank you so much for sharing some time with us today and Hey.

Happy, happy 2023. I’m not sure when you’ll be listening to this, but we’re recording this in early November. I hope your year has been fantastic. I hope your next year to come is going to be even better. And we’ll talk to you again here on the pod very soon.

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