Kevin Stafford 0:00
So hello, everyone. Welcome to another fine episode as you can already hear in my voice. I’m delighted here on the conversations coach’s podcast to be talking with Tim Kroll. The title of this episode is going to be Tim hates bios. And we’re talking about a bunch of other stuff, too. But, Tim, first of all, thank you for being thank you for talking to me. Oh, yeah,
Tim Croll 0:19
absolutely. So it’s a really good thing. Here’s the challenge. And this is why I really struggle with the, the idea or the thing of bio, most of the time, if you’re being introduced from a stage or from whatever, all they care about is the highlights, you know, they just want to know, hey, you were on TV, you were on the Lego master show, you did a company that did 15 million a year. And they don’t talk about all of these other challenges that you’ve gone through, which is where most of us reside, they don’t talk about the hard knocks, we don’t talk about the challenges that that came about, or the why behind it, we don’t hear really truly about the journey or the story, which is really important, because that’s what makes us who we are. And, unfortunately, so many people put their value in their bio, and they put they place their value on what they’ve accomplished instead of who and how they were created. And it’s a false false narrative. And so I something somebody out there is gonna be like, No, that ain’t true. Like, like, I’m like, I got it, I got this is just me, I’m just speaking from my own personal experience here. So yeah, and
Kevin Stafford 1:21
honestly, I really like it. And it’s one of those things where it’s good to just kind of flip the script and see what truth might fall out. And while a bio is at least its position as a way to begin to get to know you wanted to do is stop that journey, because it can kind of be an obstacle to it.
Tim Croll 1:37
100% and can be because when you look at it, it’s, it’s, I understand the purpose of a bio, is to establish an expertise, because people don’t want to listen to you if they don’t know that you know what you’re talking about, right? And so we list out all of these things that we’ve accomplished. But unfortunately, sometimes we’ve taken we take that bio too far. And it establishes our value, right? So it depending on and people ask me like, well, who are you really, and I honestly have to say I’m a hybrid because I do so many different things at the core of it. And this is where we have to drill down, especially if I’m coaching somebody I want to drill down and I want to know, what are your core values? What do you what are the things that you’re going to want to stand for, and you’re not willing to compromise in any way? And then if you can, and I believe everybody can with a little bit of personal work. Let’s get it down into one sentence. Why do you wake up in the morning? Why do you get out of bed on Monday? But it’s got to be a one sentence. What is that one sentence? Not this long mission statement? Not this envision of whatever I mean, I I get there’s value in some of that stuff. But in order to be able to have the motivation when times get rough? What is that one reason why you get up? What what are you really truly What’s your legacy? What’s your purpose, based on your skill sets based on your experience based on your accomplishments based on all of those things kind of put into this big, big pile? And I’ll stop talking now. Lets you know, I
Kevin Stafford 3:01
love this. This is this is why I wanted to have you on this is why I love doing this podcast. This is exactly the kind of insights that’s kind of thought provoking, like, oh, we do it this way. But why? Yeah, why don’t we just do it that way? Why is it the default, and I just I, quite frankly, this is the kind of conversation I love. So this is great. And it’s got me thinking too, about how the things that we think are actually building connection can be, quite frankly, obscurity, it could be an obstacle, it could be something that deflects you or prevents you and your your trafficking and these little these ancillary like you know, orbit, these little satellites that are around who you really are, when really you can get right to the heart of it really quickly if you want to. And again, you want love people love going around and around and around on the detail.
Tim Croll 3:45
Let me give you an illustration here. Because I mean, I work with kids a lot. And one of the things on the bio, whatever is the fact that I was, it was a privilege to be able to be on LEGO masters as a contestant building, I was on there with my son. And that’s really a cool thing. I mean, because not many people get to be on TV and beyond reality TV, whatever it doesn’t. But when I go to a Lego show, I have kids that come up, and it’s like, it’s almost like it’s bigger. It’s too big for them. I said other words, they see this person on TV, right? And so they have this image of what that individual is. And it scares them to want to come talk to you or want to be to be like around you, right. And so what I’ve done and what I’ve really been able to watch is if I shrink down to their level, and I get on I love I mean, I’m talking like 10 year olds, nine, you know, that kind of, if I shrink down on their level, suddenly I’m not so big and scary. And suddenly I’m not this person on TV, suddenly I’m on their level where they need and to be able to interact on a level where they can actually receive it. So here’s the here’s the challenge. I’m giving that illustration because here’s what I found a lot of times even when I step into businesses, they want somebody that’s an expert they want somebody that’s been through the wringer or had the hard knocks or has accomplish something. The problem is, too many people live in that ivory tower, and they don’t come down on the level to be able to communicate on the level that they need. And that’s, that’s a huge, huge challenge, especially with I’m sorry, I’m knockin some coaches, but they need to be not that. But some coaches, they don’t get down, they don’t get down on that level of being able to say, look, we’ve all been through crap, or whatever that crap is. And we’ve, sometimes it’s divorce, sometimes it’s a bankruptcy, it’s failed businesses, sometimes it’s lawsuits. I mean, I can go down the list of things that have been challenges. And it comes down to the fact that if you as an individual, place your value and your accomplishments, you’re going to feel empty for your entire life. It’s the it’s the value, you have to place your value your confidence in who and how you are made as an individual. Because that’s the only uniqueness that’s the individuality that we carry with us into our lives.
Kevin Stafford 5:53
Yeah, and that’s and that’s, that’s where the real, the real connection can and will happen. I love my family that that example that you used of interacting with kids like spoke directly to me, I worked in daycare for a long time, when I was younger, I’ve I’ve dealt with a lot of kids that are like, you know, family and not, and what I, what I fondly remember, most of my experiences, the kids, I end up on the floor in a hurry. Because I’m down to their level, it’s like I want to be where they’re at, I want to be interacting with them. And I’m, I’m a relatively tall individual always happen. I’m six, three now. And so one thing that was always something that I needed to make sure to do very early on in my relationship with any kid, whether I’m teaching them or caring for them or their family, is make sure I don’t, you know, scare them or intimidate them or project something that I don’t want to project putting anything in the way when I’m in their presence. And so very quickly, I find myself taking a knee, I find myself getting down the floor, you know, these old bones don’t do it. So well. As we get older and makes it tougher, it’s tougher, but it never gets any less rewarding. I’ll tell you that much
Tim Croll 6:53
interesting to watch how they’ll start to peek out around their parents, you know, their legs, because they’re hiding behind the parents legs will start to peek out and they’ll slowly get into it, a couple of them are pretty shy and bashful. And they may never come out. But for the most part, I mean, and then by the end of the interaction, you know, they’re like, they’re they’re wanting to give you a hug. I mean, that’s the child, they don’t have that inhibition that we do as adults, and they’re ready to just love on you. And I, there’s something truly to be learned about that. Because it doesn’t matter, color race, it doesn’t matter any of that stuff. When you’re a kid, you don’t really see that. And they just, they just want the ability to be able to connect with you. And when somebody comes down to the lab. And frankly, I think at the core of adults, that’s where we are, too, we want to be able to connect with people. And that’s a, that’s a well, let me put it this way. Now, I don’t know where you want to take the conversation, but we’ll go in any direction. Yeah, COVID hit, it scared the crap out of us. And the fact that if we were within six feet of people, we were gonna die. I mean, that’s literally what they put out there. Right. And so the, the other side of that, right, the the conflicting side of that is we have to have people, and we have to be able to connect. And it’s not just in a connection, like an emotional way. But it is also a physical connection. And you can go back years and the studies of how touch has transformed. And why do doctors touch patients is because they’re able to actually increase that healing properties. So anyway, we’ve just basically told him if you touch you die, but yeah, we’ve got years and years and years of history and studies that say, touching is critical for us to be able to connect as as humans. Anyway, so that the whole point of that I don’t know why I’m even talking about this. But anyway, it’s the whole, the whole point of that is the fact that we have to have those connecting points, those connecting components, and I don’t care. And there’s an old saying that says I don’t care what you know, until I know that you care. And that’s so true. Especially if you’re a coach or consultant or a teacher of any sort. If you don’t establish that relationship, it doesn’t doesn’t matter how smart you are, it’s not gonna work. Yeah,
Kevin Stafford 8:56
you can’t you can’t think your way through that kind of empathy and proximity and touch and I feel like you hit the nail right on the head where we really like it’s, it’s always and I’ll speak a little bit generally, so that it could be applied both literally and figuratively, but it’s always a little bit dangerous, to let yourself be touched or to touch someone else. And we had that inherent danger made frightfully tangible and manifest in COVID. And dealing with a pandemic, where everything that we were being told was to keep your distance, or you’re gonna die. But everything that we’ve learned as human beings, one way or another, up to the present moment is if you don’t connect with people, you’ll die. It’s gonna be it’s gonna be different kinds of death, but you’ll done so we had to figure out how to navigate you’ll die either way. No, it’s
Tim Croll 9:44
fear aspect is and this is a big topic that I love to talk about is we have to be able to overcome fear. And we have to be able to push through and we have to otherwise that fear will creep into every aspect of our interactions of our relationships. It’ll creep into everything and it just it The more you give into it, the bigger that fear is going to grow. And the interesting thing is, and I, I don’t have answers for any of this stuff, but it’s been interesting to watch, especially as this year has kind of gone through, coming out of COVID. For the last year, I am, I guess I’ll use this word I’m horrified at the amount of mental damage that we’ve done because of COVID. And I’m not saying that we go back and anybody did anything wrong, I’m just saying this is the mess that we have. This is the chaos that we have to clean up. And this is where we’re at. And I am truly horrified at the the mental damage that I see in individuals in that there’s a lot of this false narrative that goes up that’s going around about the fact that we are the only ones who are going through whatever it is. And it’s always been there. But it’s just been magnified because of the fact that we cannot connect and we don’t have the community we don’t have the relationships. I did. I did a talk it was really interesting. Michigan Department of Health called myself and a friend of mine, and we actually did a talk. And originally they talked about wanting to do some stuff around personalities and do some teaching on that which we did. But we got down to the core of it and new change of leadership. And again, some great leaders that are coming into the health department. And their core thing was, as we went through I always go through a discovery is what what we need right now is to reestablish trust. After an incident no fault, I’m not trying to put blame on anyone just this is the facts. After two years of you have to wear masks, you don’t have to wear a mask you have to sign up to no you can’t you can go to the airport, but you can’t go to the shoot the food or you can’t do like all of these things that one day, it’s this next day says and sometimes the freakin rules are changing every 12 hours. And as a leader or as a influencer, you know, if you make a rule, and then you change and change and change it, you’re gonna frustrate whomever it is that you’re leading, right. And that’s going to break down the trust, it’s going to break down your relationships. And so they recognize which I’m proud of them for recognizing this. And so we really focused on how do you build and rebuild a trust in a relationship that has been significantly damaged. And I believe this applies to all areas. So whether it’s your, if you’re a manager or business owner, obviously government kind of thing it can happen. But you have to have a leadership that’s willing to step up and take responsibility to grow that relationship and to build that trust and not and you got to gotta be transparent. I mean, like, that’s one of the very, very first things is you got to be like, Hey, we screwed up, or we messed up, or we didn’t we, you know, like, whatever. Anyway, that was. That was probably one of the most powerful talks that we had with about 200 employees there from the Michigan Department of Health it was, it was really powerful in the aspect that they they realized that this is what they need to do. And this is what they’re headed towards and getting feedback from different parts of the community. Again, I don’t know we can talk about something else, you just leave the conversation. No, this
Kevin Stafford 12:56
is this is great. You’re going you’re going to all the right places, as far as I’m concerned, this is fantastic. Because you got me thinking about how a cut well, a number of things. Well, first of all, how much healing were we we need right now and how much work there is to be done and how important it is like and it’s one of the reasons why I love talking to coaches or the coaches are, are naturally are coaches, teachers, people who are trying to serve trying to guide are always looking for gaps to move into, like places that whether they’re through damage or under development, whatever it might happen to be all of the above. There’s a need for reconnection for healing, for bridging for for a restructure for rebuilding for you know, laying a new foundation. And what you mentioned to me, or the way you were talking about, it reminded me of how if you as a parent, are constantly changing the rules on your kid. And like they don’t really know what to expect, like if you’re if the standards are different, or there’s a double standard, and they begin to pick up on that you’re doing so much damage to their development and not giving them anything certain anything to put their put their feet on the
Tim Croll 13:57
keyword is stability there we we want and we seek As humans, we still seek stability, and when we don’t have that stability. So some of the challenges that I actually talked with people about through some of the COVID aspect is the amount of decisions that you suddenly had to make. You had habits patterns, you had certain things, all of a sudden, when all that’s thrown out the window, now you have to make a decision, do I go to the grocery store? Or do I get it delivered? Right to what which way? Do I go here because if I if I have the potential if I go to the grocery store, I’m gonna die. If I get it delivered. Now you’re making decisions that you never had to make before because they were habits and routines. And it created a lot of decision fatigue. In a lot of individuals. You said something that was really, really key. And I think this is true. It’s about the gap, right? I used to kind of look at myself as more of a consultant and I, I’m seeing a lot of people searching and they really don’t want consultants. What they want is they want that that gap that’s going on in there is they need to have what we would call in the industry the EQ or the emotional impact. origins type stuff. We aren’t desperate for that. But the terminology has shifted. And so now when people say, oh, I need to talk about culture, or I need to talk about, how do we build our relationships, customer service, really what it is, is is emotional intelligence. And so as a individual, as a coach, consultant, whatever workshops, when I go in and talk with people, it’s really first of all, we’ve got to discover what is your greatest need, and then we put the plan together, and then we basically have to act on it, implement that. And at the end of the day, you’re adapting, because it’s all changing. I mean, as fast as we put that stuff together, we’re changing. I wrote a e book on this thing. Anyway, it’s about overcoming fear, I can offer that to everybody if they want it. I’ll give awesome. But yeah, it’s, it’s like I said, it’s just the aspect is how do we overcome this fear that has been planted. And like I said, it kind of really seeps into many different components of our lives. And it really comes down to, let’s analyze, let’s really, truly understand what’s going on. That way, when we understand we can now make a plan, which is what we did with the health department is like, okay, cutter, rebuild trust, we’ve got established relationships. So let’s put a plan together. And I gave him a three step plan. And so far, Janine, who’s there, she’s implementing that she’s reaching out to the community. I’m like, This is awesome. I love seeing that. That’s what’s really important. So that’s lovely. And
Kevin Stafford 16:23
I think you you identify something that I feel like it’s so, so critical to why I think coaching in particular, our coaching adjacent pursuits are so valuable, because, like you were saying, like you can formulate a plan. And the moment that plan hits reality, it starts to fray apart. Because at that bite by design, that’s the way life works. And having someone who is able to come in discover what needs to be done, where the gaps are, formulate a plan that makes sense for you and your organization that’s actually a little you know, tailored to what you need and where you want to go and guide you through the execution as that plan shakes and twists and falls apart and comes back together and needs to be adjusted. That sort of living documents, so to speak, that living guidance is really I think it’s what separates coaching from just consulting where sometimes a consult will just come in and be like, Oh, it’s this, this, this and that. Here’s how you fix it. See later. It’s like, yeah, coaches,
Tim Croll 17:12
that part of it, but sometimes that’s necessary. Yeah. Yeah, like I said, I’m like a hybrid, I don’t really fall directly into just coaching, I love the idea of being able to be a coach teacher, kind of a thing, or, however, when you want to combine those words, because it’s really about connecting. I have a master’s degree in leadership and all this other kind of great stuff. But that’s knowledge. And unfortunately, so much in our world, we take that knowledge, and it sets over on this one big mountain, and on the other mountain, we have our experiences, right? That’s the wisdom, they applied knowledge. And we can’t figure out how to get from one side of this, this big mountain to this big mountain. And so it’s like, how do we build that bridge between the two to be able to get this knowledge and understand how it’s going to apply to our daily business. That’s the discovery aspect of it, that’s the analyzing of it is we want to be able to take this knowledge that we have, because quite frankly, straight up we’ve got 6000 years of knowledge in leadership and development and I mean, we got I’m not gonna all of a sudden come up with something brand new, it’s not going to happen. My My talent is to be able to communicate to you how it applies. That’s my talent. That’s where I come in. But it’s not I’m not going to come up with something brand new, it’s 2000 6000 years. A lot more smart people that I
Kevin Stafford 18:31
also, you know, I’m not going to teach it to you, I’m not going to teach you an ancient Sumerian, or by ancient Babylonian, it’s actually an I’ve, I’ve, um, I know the language, I know how these old these old long since learned lessons translate today, I always I often find myself stumbling into that analogy of like a coach or a teacher as a translator, where it’s not there. I’m not there’s there’s, there’s no like, you know, great novel, great creative thing that’s like, this is the first time you’ve ever heard this, most of what you hear from a coach is going to be it’s going to be in the proximity of common sense. After you’ve heard it, you’ll be like, Oh, that makes a lot of sense. It almost feels like Oh, duh, I should maybe I should have known or I could have known that or whatever. But what a coach really helps you to do is to put those pieces together in a way that maybe you couldn’t see for yourself, or that because you’re in the organization or you’re in the gap or you’re in the trenches, you couldn’t quite identify things right? Or you kind of sensed that things were a certain way, but you just needed someone to come in and just lay it out for you. And then it’s like, Oh, no.
Tim Croll 19:26
Well, I would contend this, I’m this is my definition of coaching. A good coach, a great coach, is somebody that draws out your greatness, that that’s what a coach’s job is to do. Now. If we apply it to sports, you can watch this happen or if you apply it to parenting, there’s a lot of different ways we can apply this. Sometimes there’s the basic fundamentals. So if you’re talking to basketball, the dribbling the shooting, the keeping the elbow in and the routine of the practices, right and then there’s the stamina and the drills of running suicides and but then sometimes As there’s this aspect of, I know you got more in you, and I’m gonna push you and put you in a tougher position than you thought you can handle to be able to allow you to experience. I don’t want to call it the pain, but there is a little bit of pain. It’s the pain of not being uncomfortable, right? It’s the pain of being able to kind of step out of that area. Let me give you this little story. I don’t know how much time we have. Can I give you an illustration here?
Kevin Stafford 20:24
This will be perfect. I’m already I’m already feeling the time but because we’re just this conversation is gone all sorts of places. It’s been 30 minutes almost. So we’ll do this one. Okay.
Tim Croll 20:31
I’m loving this. I’m loving this. Because here’s here’s here’s something that a friend of mine actually went to the zoo to watch a baby draft get born. And this baby draft you know, obviously in the womb protected Mama’s keeping it feeding in the you know, it’s like it’s so when a baby giraffe is born, the very first introduction to life a baby draft gets is being dropped 10 feet. So baby draft is born, drops out, boom, man, they get hit right on their back. And they’re just like, Dude, you hear Welcome to life, man, here’s 10 feet. The very next thing that happens is the baby’s like, still kind of really shaken from this 10 foot drop, right? And then the next thing that happens, Mom’s gonna start nudging the baby, telling the baby you got to move, you got to get up, you got to get up. Finally, after multiple nudges, when a baby has a move, Mama comes along and just boom, smacks him right up with the head. And the baby finally stands, right? Because he’s like, Okay, I’ll stand I’ll stand. As soon as that baby stands, Mama comes and knocks the baby down again. And the guy did this, like four or five, six times over a 15 minute period. And the guy looked at the zoologist and says, Why is mom doing that? I mean, like, it’s just, he’s just learning, right? He’s just, he said, that says Mama knows what’s coming. Mama knows that the the lions and the hyenas. And so the reason why mama knocks down the baby giraffe multiple times is to make sure that the baby remembers the lesson, not just learn the lesson but remembers the lesson, right? And oftentimes, as coaches, we’re in the same position, it’s just like, Okay, I’m going to gently knock you down here, allow you to go through some of the pain of having to stand up again. And feel that because you are used to being in a comfort zone. And there’s a lot of stuff out there in life that you may not know is coming, but because as a coach, we kind of know some of the stuff that’s common. So we’re gonna let you experience some of that pain. And we’re going to, you know, basically gently nudge you or sometimes knock you over. So you can relearn that lesson. And I I’m currently you know, there’s a lot of times I’m still relearning lessons, but that I felt truly exemplifies what coaching is, because they’re drawing out and giving you the lessons, the strength that you need to be able to survive in a world that you may or may not know is coming. And there’s, there’s tough stuff that’s going to happen in your life. And it’s, it’s not easy, I’m not going to ever say that. There’s going to be successes, and there’s definitely going to be some valleys, but find a good coach or finding somebody that you can work with is going to change your life.
Kevin Stafford 22:52
That is, quite frankly, perfect. I love that analogy. I can’t believe I’ve never encountered that before. But that’s just Yeah, and that’s the perfect place to end it. I feel like the lessons from baby giraffe. I’m loving it. I’m really, really loving it. I think about it. That’s so it’s a really succinct way to speak to all the things that a coach brings to the table. Um, shoot, I want to keep you for longer, but I know I shouldn’t. So we should pause and do it. Part two. I
Tim Croll 23:17
mean, I’m good with that, honestly, that,
Kevin Stafford 23:19
honestly, yeah, I’m definitely going to have you back on and we’re just going to get we’ll drop we’ll drop each other into the deep end and just do this again sometime soon. But before I let you go today, where can people find out more about you, who you are, what you do, how you do it, yada, yada? And where can people best connect with you if they wanted to start a conversation and get things rolling?
Tim Croll 23:35
Right. So the honestly, if you just go to go to Google and Google my name, there’s about 1000 things that’s going to come up so it’s Tim and then the last name is CRO CR o ll My website is my name Tim kroll.com. And then honestly, the best way to connect I do a lot of ash it’s usually on social media. If you send me a message either on Facebook or LinkedIn one of those two depending on what your preference is. I usually connect very quickly there and I’ll be honest with you, that’s kind of my way my first filter so if you get that and then you get past it then I’ll give you like different phone numbers and emails and stuff like that. But But yeah, social media is probably the first entrance and the first way to get in touch with me.
Kevin Stafford 24:17
Perfect, perfect gets that’s one of the good that’s one of the good ways social media can be used as as that like that filter number one is to establish fit and evaluate whether or not we need to take the next step and what we can do together. That’s awesome. Thanks, Tim. It’s been a long time coming. I feel like we’ve been trying to like get this on the books for a while. I’m really glad we did because this has been frickin great. And yeah, I’m totally going to have you back like on and like as we get closer to the summertime and like the snow melts finally
Tim Croll 24:45
we’re still digging out from Michigan here where it will be alright.
Kevin Stafford 24:49
Well, Tim, thank you. Yes, I was I was gonna go around the around the band. But yeah, thank you. That was an excellent conversation. Thank you for starting out with the flip where it’s like Don’t read my bio. I was like, Oh, it was such it was an invitation to a different kind of conversation and I love that it energized me and so I I can tell that’s the kind of person that you are, which makes me happy because I’m glad you’re doing
Tim Croll 25:13
well, yeah, I look forward to the next conversation and then again, I’d love love helping people. That’s my thing is I have the question up there. How many people have I impacted today? So that’s my that’s my sentence. So I’ll end with that. How many people have I impacted and that’s what I get up for every morning.
Kevin Stafford 25:28
Perfect place to end it. Thank you. Thank you to the listeners. And we will talk to you again here very soon.
