Kevin Stafford 0:01
Hello, everyone, and welcome to another episode of the conversations with coaches podcast. I’m your usual host, Kevin and today I have the pleasure have had the pleasure already of speaking with Mike horn. Mike helps leaders work with the consequences of poor culture and people decisions to advance authentic leadership and prosperity and authentic leadership, quite frankly, is in caps. And it shouldn’t be. I love that you can get to know Mike a little bit better at Mike hyphen horn.com. But for now, we’re gonna get a chance to know Mike a little bit better here. Mike, thanks for coming on the podcast, I’m really excited to talk to you today about who you are what you do.
Mike Horne 0:35
You have enough, so delighted to be here. And thank you for the wonderful introduction. When I think about authenticity, I think about how we bring more of who we are to what we do. And it’s great to be able to chat about that with you and share it with your audience. Because so many people, they want to be authentic in life. And yet when I asked audiences time and time again, are you more authentic at home? Or at work? The answer is usually the same, oh, I’m more authentic at home than I am at work. So I always wonder what are we leaving on the table in terms of the talent that we bring in terms of our abilities to grow and to develop and why it’s so difficult, why there are so many barriers to authenticity at work.
Kevin Stafford 1:25
Man, I know this is a short form podcast. But as you set that up, and like, hey, let’s begin our three hour conversation about that. And honestly, that is a subject that comes up frequently on this podcast, because I’m sure there’s one thing that pretty much every single coach worth their salt is very much all about is authenticity. And showing up, like you said, being able to show up in the places you want to show up authentically as yourself because you are, you know, valuable, you have things to bring to the table, that you know these false, not false, but these constructs of work and different, you know, the ins and outs of how we interact, quote unquote, professionally, you know, it can be as it can be as amplifying as it is limiting. And it’s I think we have an interesting and interesting course to navigate especially now that we I think we know more about the how to value authenticity, I know I’ve just kind of like kicked us right off into like the concept discussion. But I feel like there’s a greater awareness of the necessity of authenticity in the workplace in professional environments. And I can see, I can sense that I can see and I can experience an embracing of that. So it feels like a very ripe time for authentic leadership.
Mike Horne 2:31
So interesting. Because as I compare that, or I think about that, or I juxtapose it with what goes on in North American politics, particularly US politics. Maybe there, there is a lack of authenticity that occurs. And yet in business, I mean to your example, it’s about how do we get people to bring more of who they are to what they do. And when we think about what does it mean to be authentic? It means that there’s some congruence right between what I say and what I do, and even better, if it’s among what I think, say into how do we drive that authenticity in, you know, organizational life, when so many people are scared to do this, or afraid to do that, or face consequences for bringing more of who they are to what they do.
Kevin Stafford 3:24
Hmm, it’s always, I mean, it’s, it’s oversimplifying, but there’s a whole lot of fear. At the heart of it, I think, both both how we how we choose to bring ourselves to the table professionally, and also the structures that maybe restrict or give us pause or anxiety about what the consequences might be. It’s a it’s a big word consequences when it comes to authenticity
Mike Horne 3:45
was so insightful, Kevin, because in so many organizations, whether they’re small or large, there are structural inequalities that play, right as we build it into the way that we think about some system, some organizational systems, and it can be tough to speak up in an organization. And yet, you know, what does it mean to have integrity? Integrity is all about the real deal, right? It’s about being able to bring who you are to what you do. It’s about, you know, things are in sync, they’re in alignment. And, you know, that creates, I think, a good sense of self a sense of identity, which a person can then bring it into the world.
Kevin Stafford 4:34
As you said two of my two of my favorite words right there and that description. Obviously, we were talking about authenticity, alignment, that comes up constantly. And there’s like, all sorts of analogies always popped into my head. Like I’m thinking about people rowing in concert, to where if like, if you get your timing right, and everybody’s aligned, it’s amazing how far and how fast you can go. And just alignment is such a huge key to I mean, you talk about getting everybody on the same page rowing in the same direction. Shan working on the same project, you know, it’s all this stuff, it’s so important to even showing up authentically, as an individual, being in alignment with people around you, even as you are different and have differing opinions on things and differing approaches to things. If you are in alignment with each other, you can bring all of that to the table in a way, that’s not going to restrict or hamper your progress, it’s going to actually amplify it, we’re going to work towards it. And that’s definitely a not an indictment, but definitely is an indicator of our systems and structures, whether or not when you come authentically, is there an opportunity for the alignment that you’re seeking, but you can all come together and be working in your own ways towards that unified goal, if that makes sense?
Mike Horne 5:42
Oh, I think it makes a lot of sense and to think about it in terms of how we’re able to bring more of who we are to what we do. And you know, what organizational systems support that, in many ways it’s shape up or ship out. Is a lot of conformity in organizational life. And I think it’s easy for us to say, Well, sure, you know, bring who you are to what you do. And to your point. And Kevin, it goes to thinking about or considering the systems and structures, you know, that are at play in organizational life?
Kevin Stafford 6:15
Absolutely. I I feel it feels like we jumped right into the into the meaty stuff. I want to make sure that why not? Why why why not? Of course, you a little bit. And I’m wondering how how you got on this path in the first place. You’ve obviously been doing this for quite some time. It’s very, very important to you. So how did you get your start as a coach? How did you find yourself committed to growing authentic leadership in individuals and in workplaces? Like how did you get your How did you just start how what’s your superhero origin story here? I’m curious.
Mike Horne 6:44
Oh, my superhero origin story in this regard is probably the United Farmworkers movement in the UFW and Cesar Chavez and Dolores Huerta and all the great folks during the lettuce boycotts, really giving me a way to think about the world as bigger than myself, probably later, you know, identity formations around the Peace Corps when I was a volunteer in the Solomons. So I think in large part, not in large part, I mean, I defined my role as a coach, mentor and teacher. I’ve had a lot of roles in that regard as an organizational executive, as a coach, as a consultant. And as a coach.
Kevin Stafford 7:28
Excellent. I did I had not I only done the most cursory of glances at your LinkedIn. That’s excellent. I didn’t know that. That’s how you got your start. And your inspiration. That is, that’s
Mike Horne 7:37
Yeah, and I’ve been teaching most of my career as well. So that’s really helpful as a way of learning and being in touch with the ideas that people bring into an environment in which to learn.
Kevin Stafford 7:50
Yeah, you say that, and I’m very much not surprised you have such a, such a measured, and, and open and inviting way of communicating. And it’s not just to say, it’s tough to be both a lot of times, I’ll talk to people and they’re measured, and they have their words, they’re not reading from a script, they’re speaking authentically, but they have the things that they’re saying, but the way that you communicate yourself is both measured and concise and also open and available. And I feel like that’s not only possible, but a crucial to be both, you know, to have strong opinions and to have well formed thoughts and be able to communicate them with with precision, and be open and empathetic and adaptable and available in ways that allow other people to not just get to know you better, but also to bring like to bring it back to what we were talking about the beginning to bring their full selves to the table authentically, if that’s the table that you’re sitting at it’s, yeah, it’s both a compliment and a subject to speak on. Because I find it I find it fascinating that we, for so long, kind of had a separate way of thinking of those two concepts. And that really, it feels like the wedding of those two, the marriage of those two is where it’s where the real power is. And I think we’re seeing that now more today. Well, I think
Mike Horne 9:00
we were locked into some conventional wisdom around the separation of work and life and if anything the recent pandemic has taught us is that there’s little separation between work and life. And it’s interesting to see leaders and managers struggling with these issues now about control and where is the locus of work? And how does that affect people and their affinity to the organization? And how does it affect the challenges and demands of managers?
Kevin Stafford 9:36
It’s, I use that word control and I often think about I have talked to a lot of a lot of coaches who have one of the reasons why they’ve dedicated themselves to coaching in particular in like in business and in the in the in the executive environment, is that older model of command and control you hear that? spoken of so often command and control and it’s not it’s not exactly a popular way to phrase it these days. But yeah, there’s a whenever We’re, and I’m not speculating here, but I’m kind of just ruminating here, whenever someone tends to feel a loss of control, there’s almost always that reflexive grasping to get it back, regardless of whether or not the best thing for everybody might be a little bit of slippage there when it comes to that control, but there’s just a reflex there that I think we’re kind of experiencing right now as when it comes to how we work. And that doesn’t just mean you know, showing up in an office or being around a water cooler, or in a conference room, just how we work, I feel like we’ve gotten a tremendous opportunity to, to really look at our wise in that regard and make some considerable changes to how we go about working so that not just so that we can feel better about things, but also so that we can do more and be better.
Mike Horne 10:43
And to understand our tribes around control in particular, there are some people who really liked to have a lot had to have a lot control in their lives. And there are others who don’t like that. And I think having a good sense of who you are, and relative to the control that you express in situations versus the control that you want others to have for you, I think it’s very important to understand all of that.
Kevin Stafford 11:12
And we have feel like we’ve got some some currency to spend in that regard, too. I feel like it like I said that there’s, there’s an awareness of the importance of it, and of the value of it. And I feel like it’s like you got to strike while the iron is hot. You know, I feel like that’s, it’s as these kinds of conversations are happening all over the world, I think. But certainly here in America, in America, where it’s just, we have the opportunity, and we have a little bit of license license to thrill. We make some, like, make some changes and things that are long time that we’ve thought of as very entrenched, very, very, actually entrenched is probably the best word for it, because it feels very, like stuck in a rut, you know?
Mike Horne 11:51
Well, that’s a, you know, I think that’s true of a lot of organizations is that they are stuck in ruts, right? And people like to have a certain degree of comfort in their organizational experience. And I think that’s what’s important, so disruptive about work and where work takes place today and how people are thinking about it.
Kevin Stafford 12:12
Yeah, I want to ask you a little bit, kind of a question that kind of comes across almost like you’re in an interrogation. It’s like, what did you know? And when did you know it? You know, that kind of thing. But I like to ask, Who do you coach? And how do you coach them? And that’s basically a Like, who do you like, what kinds of people or what kinds of industries or areas? Do you focus on coaching? What your typical client base like, who are they like, where are they at in their career in their life, and also how you coach them. I mean, obviously, one to one is where almost everybody gets their started, it continues to be where the some of the real depth can happen. But a lot of coaches are like to have keynote speaking, they have books, they have programs and masterminds of various sizes and types. So really, who do you coach? And how do you coach them these days?
Mike Horne 12:54
I coach smart people, and primarily, people who are scientists, engineers, or some other kind of technologists. And you might characterize those the smart people I work with, generally people who have a lot of book smarts, maybe, doctorates, maybe they’re MDs, but people who are often involved in the sciences and in engineering, and in technology, those are primarily the folks with whom I work. And, you know, it’s, it’s, it’s great, it’s a great honor, it’s a great privilege, to be in touch with those folks who are doing amazing things and have done amazing things in the world. And usually, there’s some sort of transition point. You know, often if you think about the stereotypes of scientists and other technologists, you know, we have, we have a range of them from absent minded professor to somebody who’s very standoffish, and I’d like to work at all of those intersections.
Kevin Stafford 14:05
That’s lovely. It’s actually it reminds me of a conversation I had I forget with who but it was, it was a number of months ago, I think it was back in the summer. And a lot of his focus was around a similar subset of people where, and he talks and he talks about it very eloquently about how when you when you have these really high skill, high knowledge positions, you really just have to, you have to have a lot of education and know a lot and be really good at what you do. And as you’re really that good at what you do, you do tend to progress through an organization’s hierarchy. And then eventually, you get to a point where the skills you need to excel in a role are no longer the same skills that you needed to excel in your previous role, where you now need leadership skills and how to how to lead and guide and run a team and how to organize a team and how to motivate, inspire and also how to how to manage the work that you’re so used to doing yourself because you were so great at it. And that’s a that is a tricky Crossroads to navigate. I think we lose We lose a lot of talented, skilled, passionate people in that sort of sort of messy middle, that sort of strange transition period. And having coaches like you at those crossroads almost as guideposts yourself, where you can step alongside of people is like, here, let me help you transition. And so you can continue to be as great at this as you always have been, there are some new skills you need, let me teach you and let’s work on developing them. I feel like that role that you provide is so important.
Mike Horne 15:27
And I you know, that there’s one more that I’d add to that entire mix, which is collegiality. Because often in highly technical environments of technologists, scientists, MD PhDs. There’s a lot of smarts, you know, around the table, but to think about it in terms of collegiality, and how we interact with one another is so important. Because often, you know, command and control situations, I mean, they won’t work, particularly in those environments.
Kevin Stafford 16:02
Yeah. There’s so much there’s so much meat on all of these bones that we’ve been talking about. But as promised, the time has flown by we’ve already been chatting for for nearly 20 minutes now. So I want to give you a chance to let the audience know and let me know too, but let the audience know where they can I could this is another two parter. I like to ask where can people find out more about who you are and what you do? And it just couldn’t be the same? But and where can people best connect with you if they want to learn more about you and maybe talk with you about bringing you on as their coach or bringing you into their company as a coach. So yeah, where can people learn more about you and connect with you?
Mike Horne 16:35
The best place for all of that is Mike dash horn, Ito rnd.com. And that will take you lots of places, I’d encourage people to you know, listen to my podcast, authentic change with my corn, it’s released weekly, I’d encourage people to subscribe on Mike dash horn.com to our newsletter. It’s a bi weekly newsletter, we’ll be growing audience. And those are ways to be in touch. And if I can be of service when people visit. Yeah, that’s great. Mike dash horn.com His way to get in touch with me. Also, I’m usually pretty active on three social media channels on LinkedIn, Twitter, and Instagram, you’ll find me there and have a weekly, bi weekly newsletter on LinkedIn, encourage people to visit and stop by and engage in a conversation with me or in dialogue about topics that I think are so important about how we bring more of who we are to what we do to work in life.
Kevin Stafford 17:42
Excellent. You haven’t made the jump to tic toc yet? No. Maybe I should think I should. Honestly, it’s short, though. I mean, I know I know. It’s sort of cliche to say but short form video is really, it’s, it’s not going away. And I see I see a number of coaches doing some, some very good. Speaking of what we’ve been talking about all day, authentic work. It’s one of the ways that you can really put yourself in front of people and express what’s important to you and valuable about your coaching in a way that’s very accessible. I often, when I’m talking to coaches about I’m often like you want people to have taken as many steps on their journey towards you as possible before you meet, and they get a chance to see you and get to know like your tone of voice the way you express yourself. It makes them feel like they already know you a little bit.
Mike Horne 18:28
And that’s great, Kevin, I hadn’t thought about that. Because I do short form video. That’s certainly distributed on LinkedIn and the other outlets that I mentioned, you know, things that are under a minute and a half or so. I just hadn’t thought about that in terms of tick tock, but why not.
Kevin Stafford 18:46
And if you ever do get on tick tock, I’m sure people can start at Mike dash horn.com. And they’ll, they’ll be able to find you when you’re there as well.
Mike Horne 18:53
So that’s the way to go. Kevin.
Kevin Stafford 18:56
Mike, this has been fantastic. I’ve really enjoyed talking with you. And yeah, I feel like almost, I feel I feel like a band aid ripping off because I’m just like, I don’t want to go but I really should. So thank you for your time. And thank
Mike Horne 19:06
you and your audience and certainly ready for the next conversation with Kevin Stafford it’s just a delight to be in conversation with you and with your audience. Kevin.
Kevin Stafford 19:17
I may well be reaching back out to you and I’ll wait until the spring just so that enough can happen between now and then. But yeah, I can I can tell it Talking with you is going to be a breeze. So yeah, I’ll be having you back on for a part two in the not too distant future. If that’s alright with you.
Mike Horne 19:30
That’s great. Kevin, thank you so much.
Kevin Stafford 19:32
Thank you and to our audience. We will talk to you again very soon.
