Kevin Stafford 0:01
Hello everyone and welcome to another episode of the coffee with Coach’s podcast. I almost said good morning. It’s morning for us. We were recording but Good day to you whatever time you’re listening to this. I’m your usual host, Kevin, who’s always very hyper conscious of his timezone, I guess. And today I have with me, Dr. James Oh Rogers, James has practiced diversity management as an enterprise performance tool for over 35 years. In addition to his current role as executive coach to C suite executives, Dr. Rogers serves as director of the executive Academy of ITSM F, which in case you’re not up on all of your acronyms these days, stands for Information Technology senior management forum. His mission is quite simply, quote, to build leaders of color for a changing world. James, thank you so much for being on the podcast today. I’m really glad you’re here.
James Rodgers 0:49
My pleasure, Kevin, thank you. Thank you for inviting me.
Kevin Stafford 0:53
Let’s, let’s start at the start. We’ll begin at the beginning. How did you get your start as a coach? And I kind of I usually ask this kind of as a two part question where there’s usually this moment of discovery where someone realizes that they just they already are a coach, or they’re already doing the things that make a good coach, and then they make a decision to go about pursuing that as their life’s work or as a as a business. How did you get your start?
James Rodgers 1:18
So surprisingly enough, I’ve always been called coach, even when I was in a corporate executive, when I was managing teams, someone on the team would invariably say, okay, okay, coach, we got it. And I paused on and say, Hey, what’s that about? Even when we were in recreation, I remember one time, we were playing volleyball, and I just couldn’t help myself. Everybody knows what you do in volleyball, you dig, you said, you spike. And every time the ball came through, outside, I would say, okay, dig, set, Spike. And I’d be just reminding people of stuff that I knew they already knew. And that relates kind of foundation of my coaching philosophy. But then, of course, I met Marshall Goldsmith, when I was the head of, of a corporate university. And he was one of our speakers. And, of course, he I consider him the father of modern executive coaching. And so, after I started my management consulting practice, I noticed again, when I was working with C suite executives on human capital issues, they’d all call me, Coach. And so I said, there must be something about my persona that speaks to coaching. And so I, in addition to advising and counseling them, I would always coach them and tell them, you know, you know, this, you we’ve already talked about this. So while you were speaking, why didn’t you do this? What was what was the blind spot that caused you not to do this? What was the trigger that caused you to say what you said, and so it just became a natural part of who I am. And so I tell people that I, you know, I’m not certified, I’m not taught to be a coach, I am a coach. That’s just who I am. And so I just acknowledged that and began coaching practice, primarily with C suite VP and above the level of people, helping them to be at their best to be even more effective. And it’s that I tell people I don’t, I don’t coach people who need mentoring help. I coach superstars, Michael Jordan’s, at the corporate environment, I’m trying to help them to get out of their way and be the best they possibly can be.
Kevin Stafford 3:30
I love that. I love that. I love that, that realizing that it’s much more of a sort of understand discovering an identity, where it’s like, oh, it’s not that I’m going to become this. I am this. And once you once you realize that, and also just I love the way that you position it as almost just like you’re not, you’re not putting something in that isn’t already there, you’re helping someone to maybe not even discover it, they may even know it’s there. But they don’t know how to access it. Or they don’t know exactly how to really bring it out of themselves and manifested in the world in a way that’s going to, you know, help people and do the things they want to do. And that’s like that, that just nails right on the head. What a coach is really all about that guidance is going to tell you what you already know. But you need to hear it. And you need to hear it from someone you trust. I love that.
James Rodgers 4:15
Good. So by weight by the way, the someone you trust quite often is yourself. One of the things that I’ve discovered in my coaching practice, is I tell my clients all the time, I’m not going to answer your question, I’m going to question your answers, I’m going to drive you to think deeper, so that you can solve your own problems. And quite often what they will do is say the most profound things, and it’ll cause me to stand back and say, Wow, that was deep. And they’ll just dance right past it. Like they never said it. I said, so part of what I do. Usually I say we just stop. Let’s pay attention to what you just said. Make a note of that. That was really wise thing that you just said. Now, if you could act on that, then the problem thing that we’re talking about today would probably go away. So quite often they have the answers, and they will even speak the answers. And they won’t even recognize what they’ve said. So part of the coach’s job is to catch you being wise, and to catch you in your own wisdom. And reminding you, this is what you know.
Kevin Stafford 5:22
Immediately the image of the hand in the cookie jar, like just getting caught, getting caught being wise, I just I love that. Because there’s, there really is a playful aspect to the relationship between a coach and someone being coached where you’re really just figuring things out together. And then there’s a lot of fun and really genuine joy to be had. And those moments of discovery where you’re just like, wait a minute, that was fantastic. Let’s say it again. Say it again. Yeah, say it one more time.
James Rodgers 5:53
And that’s what that’s what it feels like.
Kevin Stafford 5:55
I love that. And also, I really, really love that I don’t answer your questions. I question your answers. That is you. Every 30 to 45 seconds you’re laying on you’re laying these these lines of wisdom. I mean, and I’m just like, making mental note of like, you know, real quick surreptitiously writing it down like, fantastic. I love that so much. Let’s, let’s talk a little bit more about whom, who you coach today and also how you coach them. That’s kind of how I usually ask the question because everybody obviously has their, their focus the people that they focus on coaching. And in your case, it’s you know, C suite executives. And I’m sure there are other people that you have coaching influence on or coaching relationship with. And then also, kind of following up with that, how you coach them. I know a lot of coaches at the very least start and tends to center their coaching on the one to one relationship. But there’s always sometimes small group coaching or like executive team coaching or masterminds, or even like keynote speeches. So who do you coach? And how do you coach them these days.
James Rodgers 6:52
So in my new role as the director of the executive Academy of ITSMF, this is one of the first time that I’ve done a large group coaching process, because I am using the same principles with that group to drive them to understand what it takes to get to the C suite, as opposed to being the technical expert, or the superior manager, how to be a leader at the executive level. And I have found it quite rewarding to share the principles without lecturing at all. It’s quite often that I get a feedback from one of the participants to say, Dr. Rogers, I love when you said XY and Z. And I said, I didn’t say that that was someone else in your class. Because my job is to bring out their wisdom, again, is to ask the right questions so that they dig deeper. So who do I coach normally on a one on one basis, it is C suite executive, VP level and above. And because that’s kind of the level that I know, I know how to run an enterprise. I’ve been a former executive myself. And I know what’s important to do that. But here’s what I do. Before I will accept a coaching client, I vet them carefully. And I bet them with one very serious questions. Who do you think you are? So I asked him to look inside and say here are my strengths are my weaknesses, and here are my gifts, here are the things that I bring to the table. And the reason I do that is because I want them to understand that in the, in the course of our coaching, we’re gonna identify some behaviors, and we do behavioral change coaching, we’re gonna identify some behaviors that you might want to address. And by knowing who you are, you will figure out this one is going to be hard. That’s just not who I am naturally. But this one’s going to be easy. All I have to do is switch to flip the switch the, the the switch on this one, and I can just easily go back to being naturally who I am. So I asked him profound questions like that, and the entire time that we’re together, it’s about me asking questions. I remember, one time I was with Marshall, and he was telling me that out of what he had learned, and what I have learned also, is that the key to any effective coaching relationship is more about the coachee than it is to coach. So I’m very careful about who I select to be coached, they have to be someone who is ready, willing and able, they are ready to be coached because they realize they need something to kind of break them out of the bad habits as human beings, we all get into bad habits. But that doesn’t diminish the fact that we really know what to do. We are really good at what we are what we do. And the other thing, just to put a pin in this is that most executives and most people are surprised by this suffer from what we call the imposter syndrome. The reason I asked them, Who do you think you are? Because quite often they’re questioning, you know why they put me in this position. She isn’t someone who’s really qualified to do I always tell them at the end of it Is it possible that other people see something in you that you don’t yet see in yourself? So I drive them to see in themselves? What makes them a candidate for CEO? What makes them a candidate for the chief strategy officer? You know, why would someone select them to do that big job with them thinking, but I’m just Mary Lou’s little boy, oh, I’m just aka Joe’s favorite. Nice, you know. So it’s really about the human to human connection or understanding the things that we go through as human beings and how to help move us past those artificial barriers that we have to being at our best.
Kevin Stafford 10:43
And I find myself at both a loss for words and over abundance of words, I feel like there’s like 12 different paths, I would love to continue on you, you have a very, and this is to the surprise of no one I imagined who’s met you for five minutes? Do you have a very eloquent and right to the point way of communicating very deep and powerful concepts. But in a very accessible way, like I’m just I feel, I feel very comfortable and also, like activated. But there’s one thing one thing I love, I wanted to I love a lot of what you said, but there’s one thing I loved in particular is how that how careful you are choosing who you coach. And then the way that you explained it, I feel like it’s perfect. And it’s sort of it’s become one of the pillars of this podcast is just like raising up all different kinds of coaches, all different kinds of voices. Because the right coach at the wrong time is the wrong coach. You know, and it’s really important I love so many coaches I talk to are they are careful about that, because they understand that they that the coach might not be the right person for what what a coachee needs. And they might know someone who is, which is why I love I love the entire coaching industry, because there’s this for the most almost flat exception that I can think of, there’s just this general desire to find the right fit and serve in the right way, at the right time for the most possible good. And everybody’s really out to kind of serve this rising tide of helping people and you know, letting people know that there are coaches that can help them figure out the things you need to figure out or, you know, question the right answers. You know, I just and I love that you are very deliberate and very focused on that.
James Rodgers 12:21
Yeah. So it’s important for me, because like you said, the right, Coach at the right time is essential to helping us to be our best. One of the things that is two of my superpowers that I that I acknowledge, is I have the capacity to summarize and simplify. Now, I didn’t come up with that language. I was responding to a question in a conference at one time. And the young lady came up to me afterwards and said, you have a remarkable ability to summarize and simplify complex stuff. And I said, Okay, I’ll make note of that. But it’s also important for me, that a person be ready to talk about ready willing and able that a person be ready for the right coaching. So that’s why, you know, people talk about the coachee is going to vet the coach is, you know, do I want this person to be my coach? Well, you know, I’m confident enough in my capabilities to know that I’m a darn good coach. What I have to do is choose the right coaching. Part of my part of my skill set is determining and going through, because people will tell you, whatever you they think you want to not want to hear. So I have to be able to look past that and say, what’s really going on with this person. So I asked them even deeper questions. And to the extent that they don’t have answers to them, sometimes that will be a disqualifier. And I just tell them, not that you’re a bad person. But this is not a good match, though, you’re not the type of person that I found that I’m most successful at, when I’m coaching. So you made me neither more you know, someone else. So it’s not a put down. But it is, it’s really important that relationship that coach and coachee relationship is as important as a manager employee relationship. It is really critical for whoever is in that relationship for them to be successful, both the coach and the coachee.
Kevin Stafford 14:19
Well said, once again, we’re already I again, I feel I feel this urge to just kind of keep you on and be greedy with your time because you are just you are a delight to speak with. But I want to make sure we let the audience know where they can find out more about you where they can learn more about you where they could connect with you if you have like a social media or like some sort of some sort of some place where you like to be found so people can get to know you see if you’re a good fit, let them expose themselves to you and see if they’re a good fit for you or just learn more about you.
James Rodgers 14:50
What two places I would point to is, I’m very active on LinkedIn. So you can find me there under coaching strategists and On my website called the diversity coach, an interesting story behind that is I’m considered a thought leader in the field of diversity and inclusion is one of the specialties that I have as a management consultant. But why did that come up with the term diversity coach? I didn’t. My clients gave me that. Because while I was supporting them on diversity and inclusion, the CEO were quite often. So there he is, there’s my coach. And so I just adopted that moniker. And it is one of the reasons one of the ways that I distinguish myself in the marketplace, because I don’t just try to educate you about the possibilities and the value of diversity and inclusion. I also coach you in executing.
Kevin Stafford 15:45
And that’s, that’s, that’s really the name of the game isn’t it’s not just about, you know, reading a book or watching a seminar on diversity. It’s about figuring out and being coached and learning how to put that into action. Because without the action, it’s just, I mean, it’s just words.
James Rodgers 16:01
Absolutely right, Kevin. Absolutely. Right.
Kevin Stafford 16:04
Yeah, okay. I’m going to, I’m going to not be greedy. And thank you for your time today. Thank you so much for being here. Thank you for talking with us. I personally, I’m very grateful and I feel confident that our audience will be as well thank you, James.
James Rodgers 16:16
Watt. Thank you, Kevin. Let’s be greedy again sometime. Okay.
Kevin Stafford 16:19
Let’s be greedy again. Man. You’re gonna have to listen back to this one and take notes.
James Rodgers 16:25
Take care yourself. You too. Alright. Bye bye.
