Kevin Stafford 0:00
Hello, everyone, and welcome to another episode of the conversations with coaches podcast. I’m your host, Kevin and I have the pleasure of making the acquaintance and the double pleasure of sharing with you. Author Imani. Otter is a trusted friend, a father, husband, son, meditator, yoga teacher. And this is my favorite part frequently swims in the Pacific Ocean, 52 weeks a year, makes me both excited and a little bit jealous. I love that. And in his spare time, in his spare, voluminous, spare time, he helps high performing executives and their teams to thrive through transformational changes they’re facing and increase their impact, both individually. And collectively. Otto, it is a pleasure to make your acquaintance. And I’m glad I could spend a bit of time with you today. So thanks for being here.
Atta Emami 0:45
Thank you so much, Kevin. It’s a pleasure to be with you. And why read this energy of yours. I appreciate it.
Kevin Stafford 0:51
That’s one thing i i often in my life over the years in the decades have gotten in my own way, as one might say. And one of the things I realized about especially this podcast, but most of the things I care about, if I just let my energy come through, like if I’m excited to meet somebody, just be excited. If my hand starts talking and my shoulders start shooting, am I willing, because I’m nodding so vigorously, does happen. Awesome. Well, let me let’s let’s take you take us back to the beginning, not the beginning, beginning, not all the way back to like, you know, when you were born and all that stuff. But let’s go back to your birth as a coach, what was and this this kind of happens differently for all sorts of different people. But there’s always these similar touch points who, who gave you the right words at the right moment? How did you discover that coaching might be either something you were already doing and didn’t have the word for it? Or something that you realized was the exact way you wanted to impact the world and make a difference in people’s lives? How did you how did you come to that coaching moment?
Atta Emami 1:49
That’s a great question. So long time ago, in a bar for Galaxy away, in 2006 2007, while I was at a real job, I tell people jokingly and I was a leader. I wanted to amplify my leadership skills. So went to Queens School of Business, which is the number one school in Canada. Pretty shout out to them. And halfway through that program, I was having some struggles with staying in the program for all sorts of different reasons. And I had breakfast for this gentleman and Peter Jensen, Dr. Peter Jensen, which I think I need to give him a shout out and actually let him know I’m doing this hopefully they will hear this. He was coaching team Canada woman hockey team, as their executive coach is like a, you know, high performance sports psychology PhD, like really cool dude. And that breakfast, this live bell for me went on Kevin, that I’m really interested in the people side of leadership, people side of and I dedicated my life since then, to the Human Development, adult development and seeing because what clicked for me when I was talking to him that he does something with these high performing athletes, they have to perform in front of 1000s of people and millions around the world. So whatever I do with the executive teams, or the leaders that I worked with, back in the time in the financial sector in Canada, would be like, the stress level, it’s not even nearly enough, but I realized how then your body and mind is connected and how you study and understand how humans work. And I’m like, oh, yeah, amen. And that’s really oriented toward the people side of leadership. And the rest is history.
Kevin Stafford 3:28
I really liked that phrase, because it really gets at something that I’ve I’ve I’ve frequently found to be like the really like not so secret heart of what makes coaching so effective and so special is that there is and this is something I’ll speak personally but this is something I’ve seen in myself and in others this tendency, or at least a a particular a particular maybe old habit of thinking and thinking of leadership as conceptual like I’m going to read the these books on leadership and I’m going to watch these talks on leadership, I’m going to learn about leadership and the people side of it is really honestly for me it’s really become where the real life is where the real Spark is. Because it’s that it’s where it’s where all of that learning and all of the all of that conceptual understanding and all of that like emotional internal life hits the ground and meet other people, it’s where it bumps into and meet and interact with other people. That’s where the magic of real leadership happens and that’s where that’s where our attention I feel like should be obviously there’s there’s space for all the learning and all the books I mean, we both have bookshelves and resume backgrounds and that there’s definitely a place for that but I personally I love the emphasis not just the like name checking but the focus on the people side of leadership. I really liked that phrase a lot. I’m gonna I’m gonna borrow that if you don’t mind.
Atta Emami 4:44
Please not even mine. I’m sure it just came out from this conversation and I Yeah, i plus one. Everything you said Kevin, I’m a big fan. And it just I realized your point like you have like many examples. I don’t want to bore you with advice still, like kept my job for a few years like can we They’ll job but like I would walk into like these complex programs and projects, as you know, by three project manager that were really struggling and all those people were far better than me in terms of the project management, hard skills or you know, like a technical skills. Like I read the room I look at the people back then is more than mostly the zoom, it was all physical in the boardroom, like, oh, this group and that group, they’re not really talking to each other, leaning to the why of it. You know, I love this metaphor, I learned from Bill, a really Mori co author of the book, Getting to Yes, is like this. He’s like, one of the masterful negotiators that in my life, I’ve learned a lot from him is like, you know, having people sitting around a metaphoric campfire, and committing to stay there till we resolve our issues. That’s what I thrive to see when I work with teams, and I’ve seen it so many times as possible. And there are people that are willing, and you know, everything else comes to techniques everyday, you know, things I need to learn, I like it, they’re willing to show up and stay there, in the uncomfortable for that, you know, like you’re sitting around a campfire, it’s just the magic happens to your point, it’s just beautiful to be participating in it.
Kevin Stafford 6:10
I think I think you’re very smartly identified to it’s that that initial uncomfortableness, of coming together, like I think often about how, especially as organizations grow, and really find great success, there’s a natural tendency for departments to form or, you know, I know, Silo can have a negative terminology, but people you know, they get, they’re very, very, very, very good at what they do, and how that contributes to the success of the organization. So obviously, a lot of their skill development, a lot of their attention, a lot of their comfort is there. And then, I mean, you’re all part of the same body, you’re all organs and limbs and a part of the same hole. But whenever you have to interact, or whatever, you have to bump up against the needs or the skills or the desires of those other parts of the organization, there’s not nearly as much attention paid there, and that can feel a little bit uncomfortable. Again, the skills are there to be developed, the campfires are to be gathered around coaches, like you are there to guide and coke and teach the skills and this inclination, but there’s that little initial discomfort that uncomfortableness sitting around that fire. And if you can just get over that hurdle of that sort of that new different uncomfortableness and not just retreat to your your own private campfire, or your own little silo or your own comfort, comfort space. So you can stay in an uncomfortable moment for a while and this this is where you come in so so beautifully, as a coach it’s holding people not holding them to the fire but holding them around the fire so to speak. And this let that uncomfortability sit there for a while so much magic, so much bridge building so much connectivity begins to occur naturally. And from there, it’s just a matter of working with it, you know, teaching the skills, bringing attention to it. And then before you know it, your your little small team, your little isolated teams have become much more aware. And a part of the whole I just I find it very magical. I love it. I get very romantic about it, because I feel like it’s so it really is you see that light dawning on their faces that like light bulb moment or light bulb seems too small. It’s really like a sunrise moment where it’s like, oh, I didn’t realize it could be this beautiful on this brightness, warmth here on this other side of the beach.
Atta Emami 8:16
Exactly. Yeah. I love the metaphor you’re using. It’s the sunrise moment. Yeah, that’s, that’s sweet. That willingness to sit around. That’s a metaphor I can play. Yes.
Kevin Stafford 8:26
Let’s talk a little bit about about like the nuts and bolts of how you how you facilitate that, how you guide that how you get that done. And I like to I like to ask this question kind of as a two parter, because I feel like it gets at the real the real heart of someone’s coaching practice. So at least these days, who do you coach and how do you coach them the who is if there’s any particular demographic or industry or, or location on a corporate ladder, so to speak. Like basically like the how you would define the who, who you focus on coaching, who you focus on impacting these days in your practice, and the how is basically your preferred techniques. And sometimes it’s all of the above, but you’ve got your one to one coaching, where it’s just you and one other person in a room. That’s obviously where so many coaches get their start and where so much of that magic still happens. There’s group coaching, there’s team coaching, there’s interdepartmental, there’s, you know, C suite executive coaching, there’s coursework, there’s keynote speeches. So who you coach, and how you coach them. And I know that’s a gigantic question. So pick your favorites, and let’s talk about that for a few minutes.
Atta Emami 9:27
Yeah, I You nailed it. Kevin. I have to say like a few months ago, I hired a business person. And I made this poor person so frustrating because I do all those things you just mentioned. So in a broad stroke, if you and I would look for you to guide me for the time. It’s a good portion of the people I coach are in a very fast pace tech sector. I also work with executives in like the energy sector. And very small way I but a special place in my heart of paramilitary groups, because, yeah, I mean, these are like a police forces who run in one state and one province, North America and just the impact these people have in the lives of human beings and their society and communities. They have the place a special place in my heart working with them as a special privilege for me to work with them, but I get I work with. Right now we’re looking at this tech sector, which is majority work with the one like a C level suit and a lot of SLTs a lot of senior leadership team. So basically they’re saying leadership teams will work with executive teams and I honestly thrive in both and so I do one on one and one to many, I’m a big fan converted. And over half, like 2013, I started journey organizational change to being first as I one of my mentors, Dean Anderson, who like he does like change at the levels that you know, like as to me was jaw dropping back then still, 10 years later, still, maybe I’m a slow student, Dean. But it just fascinates me even you see the layers of system intricacies of the system. And what I call like a force multiplier, when you help an SLT and the leaders between them till the frontline and as had a personal experience of working with a team of like, 5000 people over the course of years, and their results collectively catapulted. And a lot of it was volunteer work. I wasn’t asked by the SLT to work with the mid levels and the frontline. But that gave me so much background context that hey, why were they you know, telephone line is broken down, you know, this is the SLT so much caring, and this they’re saying, A, and in the frontline, they’re hearing Z, and I’m like, No, that’s not what they’re saying. So there’s a lot of stuff and personality puts me in my edge of development, meaning, you know, like, you have to show up in a lot of unknown territories, when you’re doing work with groups of people, preparing keynotes, I have one that has a paper, I can’t even see the audience anymore, which is like your ographers and, you know, green room and all these things and like, you know, like the calm yourself down and then be president but multiplier factor of team coaching, I became a fans about 10 years ago, seeing it witnessed it, and I’ve been doing it actively, since then, was wobbly, and I hope it’s less wildly, that’s why they hire me still so much. But yeah, I love that aspect of and one on one, and you go deep with an executive who has in charge of 1000s of people, or in the paramilitary with a column executive command teams, like you’re working with an executive command team member, who’s like, you know, half of, you know, state, you know, all the troops and everybody work with them. It’s just, I find it quite exciting. And, you know, quite humbling to work with them.
Kevin Stafford 12:55
Yeah, and I think you’re, you’re so you’re so spot on to identify that as a force multiplier, because you really are like, when you’re when you’re coaching a senior leadership team, or when you’re coaching a CEO or an executive, or when you’re coaching someone who’s responsible for, you know, half of a provinces, you know, enforcement force, you are essentially coaching the dozens and hundreds and sometimes 1000s of people that they have a direct effect on, on a regular basis, sometimes daily, sometimes hourly, and being able to and I love that you have as a natural outgrowth of your coaching have sometimes taken you down into what you might call the infrastructure where it’s like you’re you’re going down down the quote, unquote, ladder, and seeing where the where the communication breakdowns might be. And I love that you identify that almost like a game of telephone, where it’s like, there’s, there’s a is being said here, and a is being understood here. But B, C, and D, and E and sometimes z are what’s actually coming out of the mouths of these people over here. Where’s the disconnect, and you begin to learn about the identity and the positioning of those senior leaders as you begin to understand what’s being said in what’s happening in the organization and what’s actually making its way up to them and the flow of information and it gives you such a such a deeper insight. It really does. I love that that was a natural outgrowth and how you really are just like, you know, I might I might still feel wobbly sometimes when I’m when I’m trying to coach these in your leadership teams, but honestly, and this is might be a little bit too cutesy for you, but for me, like, what starts out as a wobble with time and training and commitment and passion becomes a dance, it might not feel like you’re dancing, but you will acquire a grace that allows you to truly dance and move with people and make the kind of difference you’re clearly making.
Atta Emami 14:37
Thank you. All right. You’re super kind apparently because you don’t know me. Well, Kevin, to a point, you know, like I remember, like, you know, like literally just like 10,000 hour thing you know, literally like, like hundreds of hours of being in looking at with amazingly wonderful, talented mentors and work with them and I you know, like a few months ago, I prepare something for today. A workshop with the can executive team, you’re basically putting a ton of hours and you walk in and half an hour. And you have to basically throw all your whole agenda prep work away, and work with what’s in the room because the room wants to go somewhere else, even though you work with the chief of staff who worked with the people behind, you know, they said, This is where they want to go. But something pops into the awareness, if at all. This is where the energy is, and you just have to trust that you have enough that you can navigate the wobbliness of instead of putting prepared all these things for you, I’m like, who cares? You know, in service of the people in the room, you just have to be willing that makes it way harder than doing one on one coaching with one person.
Kevin Stafford 15:44
Yeah, again, you’ve nailed it, again, in service of the people who are in that room. And I just I love, that’s something that I find with with all good coaches have this in common is that they definitely they have their plans, they do their research, they do they do, they do the hard work, they put in the hours. And they will go where their clients need them to go, they will guide where their clients need guidance. And I feel like that’s that that to me is one of the identifying markers, the key identifiers of a truly good coach, and so that you just said that naturally. Again, I don’t know you, I’m giving you the rosiest possible interpretation. But from what I’ve seen, and what I’ve gotten to know over these few minutes, and what I’ve like, you know, read about you here and there and everywhere. You’re the real deal. So they will thank you for expressing yourself so succinctly. And so clearly. And thank you for doing what you do. I like I like your approach and like your commitment to it, it’s clearly a point of passion for you. And that shows which, which means something to me, and I’m sure it means something to your clients.
Atta Emami 16:40
Thank you, you’ve said something that is like really, like a big thing in my heart a few times as if you really know me. Well, Kevin, I think you do is like, I it’s important to me to be of service more than the you know, the coaching contract and everything else like I any aligned with the vows I make every morning I it’s when I’m in service that keeps me going. So I have friends who I dearly love, and I’m an introvert too, I was gonna say maybe because they’re introverted, like we do like this, like a day long session with them and they have to take like a week off. I thrive on it, I feel energized, you know, after because I feel like oh, I was in service to these, you know, wonderful, caring human beings who down the line, the telephone line, they may not even they didn’t they’ve been not perceived as, as caring as they are. Especially because of all the rapid changes in like, in the tech sector, you know, like, generative AI, all these other things, people forget that, you know, they’re human beings who really care and participating in that with them as like a quite a quite a, quite a gift.
Kevin Stafford 17:47
That’s the perfect word. It’s, it’s beautiful gift. So speaking of gifts, I would love to just selfishly keep you as my gift, but I gotta get you out of here. So before I let you go, where can if two people just want to learn more about you, who you are, what you do, what you’ve done, what you stand for, just learn more, where can they best go like, you know, LinkedIn or website, etc. And if they want to connect with you, what’s the best way for them to do that?
Atta Emami 18:10
Yeah, thank you. Again, I’m embarrassed to say my my website have been under construction for a long time now. Change facilitators that come by the LinkedIn is the best place people can find me on LinkedIn, I hold office hours for particular companies, alumni right now, every Friday at noon, ESD. However, I, you know, I respond to almost every honest them in almost every single request that DM you know, I feel like sometimes there are more people wanting to solve problems for coaches that are coaches out there in LinkedIn. But it’s my cynical view, but other than those, I respond to i because it makes me to be of service. Yes.
Kevin Stafford 18:52
Alright, LinkedIn profile, there’ll be I’ll make sure there’s a link to your LinkedIn profile in the show notes with your name correctly, spelled all that now you don’t want to lose anybody in the search bar.
Atta Emami 19:01
Thank you so much. We’re glad you’re doing Kevin. I appreciate it. It’s conversations.
Kevin Stafford 19:05
It’s, it’s a pleasure. And yeah, we’d love to, I’d love to have you back on it. I feel like it went by so fast. I mean, I know we weren’t talking to buy, I feel like I can do this again and for longer. So don’t be surprised if I if I direct message you on LinkedIn, or find you on your website whenever it’s you know, eventually constructed. Because I would love to talk to you again soon. Thank you so much for
Atta Emami 19:24
your time. My pleasure. My pleasure. Yeah, and to the audience,
Kevin Stafford 19:28
know what to do next. Like if you’ve, if you’ve gotten the same warm from this conversation that I have even a fraction of it, connect with with others on LinkedIn, learn more about him. It’s connecting him warm presence, and he has a lot to offer. So I’d want to encourage you, the audience to do that. And we here at the podcast will get to talk to you again very, very soon.
Atta Emami 19:45
Thank you so much to you and your team Kevin, appreciate you. All right.
