[00:00:00] Kevin Stafford: Hello, everyone, and welcome to another episode of the Conversations with Coaches podcast. I’m your host, Kevin, and today I have the pleasure of meeting for the first time and making the acquaintance of and having a great conversation already with Mark Messiano. I’m pretty excited to both introduce him to you and also just keep talking with him.
We’ve been having like a really entertaining conversation already. So let me just introduce him to you and we’ll get right to the chase. Mark Messiano is a professional resume writer and career coach who has helped over a thousand professionals find new jobs, transition to new industries, and land big promotions.
With a modern approach to job searching, Mark delivers highly impactful strategies that consistently prove successful. Mark. Thanks for being here. I am delighted to make your acquaintance, as they say.
Same to you,
[00:00:45] Mark Misiano: kevin. This has been fun so far already, and we hadn’t even hit record yet.
[00:00:49] Kevin Stafford: I like, one thing I learned pretty early on in this podcast, meeting people process is to just not, to not put a throttle on my enthusiasm.
Just be as happy as you feel, Kevin, to be in the room with people who are like, who are happy to be doing what they do. And if you look silly sometimes, or show your stuffed cat to a guest, which I did, People listening will not see the little stuffed cat that I was showing Mark, but if just this, let it shine, if it gets a little silly, sometimes it gets a little silly, but trust the process.
And that’s one of the things I love about this podcast is that coaches always are very. aligned with their mission, their impacts, their purpose. And so even very random seeming tangents naturally fold right back in to alignment with the mission. So again, long story short, I trust the process. Perfect. I love that.
So let’s go back to the beginning, not the beginning, because we don’t have that kind of time, but your beginnings as a coach, and I like to cheekily refer to this as your superhero origin story. How did you discover or figure out that coaching was the way you wanted to have the impact you wanted to have in the world?
Did you have a key mentor at a key moment who gave you the words or the tools or the understanding to realize that was maybe a direction you wanted to pursue. Basically, how did you get your start as a coach?
My
[00:02:03] Mark Misiano: start was a giant mistake, honestly. So I started out, I was working in higher education.
I had worked in higher education for a long time in academic advising and learned a lot about industries that I would never go into and never thought I would use that knowledge again. I moved on from academic advising and I was in a communications coordinator role. And that basically meant I was a glorified editor.
I would take things from marketing and public relations and say, is this grammatically correct? And is it for the right audience and all that? So I ended up getting laid off and needed something new. And so I was going to go hire a resume writer and it was thousands of dollars, which I thought was insane.
I was like, I can’t do that. So I was talking to my sister, actually, who said, why don’t you help people with resumes? So you’re always supported friends and family over the years who needed new jobs and I’m a decent writer. So I was like, okay, I’ll help with resumes. So she was like, go start your own business doing that.
And I was like, I’m pretty sure that’s not a career. That’s not an industry. You can’t do that for a living. So I ended up researching a little bit more and found the professional association of resume writers and career coaches. I joined I got their certified professional resume writer credential and jumped into business.
So I’ve been doing a lot of coaching and writing really over the past 5 years and took it full time. Jumped in full time two weeks before I ever heard the word coronavirus, right before the lockdowns and pandemics. So it was a weird transition, that’s for sure. But it’s been growing ever since. I really started out just writing resumes.
Then I added cover letters. Then I added LinkedIn profiles. I got a certification, again, through that same association, for LinkedIn writing. Then I started adding the career coaching, honestly, begrudgingly. I didn’t really want to. Because it felt like a lot of responsibility to guide people through something as significant as a career transition or trying to land a promotion, it seemed like a lot of responsibility on me that I didn’t want to have in case I messed it up for them.
I really. took the time to learn from some mentors. There’s several people that I met through the Professional Association of Resume Writers and Career Coaches at conferences and in webinars that have been great colleagues for me. I am a solopreneur, so I am by myself in this, and it’s nice to have colleagues that you can trust in and rely on who will Walk with you through business and walk with you through this concept of how do you coach.
So I, I had some colleagues who just almost very informally trained me. This is how you coach is what it means to coach in career services. And so I’ve been expanding consistently since then. And this past year, early in the spring of 2023, I relaunched a little bit. I redid my website. And really started packaging things together in a way where I’m able to be really holistic and really strategic with clients.
So instead of here’s a one off resume and you can come back later for a LinkedIn profile, I package up all those writing services and then offer ways that we can really plan out. a career strategy for folks. And so I have different packages at different price points with different levels of coaching where we can talk through how do we narrow the scope of your job search?
How do you job search effectively instead of, indeed and click and let’s see what happens. We do interview prep or mock interviews if they need it. We talk through networking and how to use tools like LinkedIn, how to customize your resume and cover letter, and then just some for accountability and follow up with people to make sure that.
They’re doing it right and that there have a partner walking through a career transition or a job search instead of having to do it all by themselves.
[00:05:51] Kevin Stafford: That element of coaching, I think is it’s, I think it’s been under appreciated for a long time, but is growing rapidly in appreciation. It’s that sort of combination of guidance and accountability.
Sometimes you just need somebody to look you in the eye and say, Hey, did you do the thing we talked about? And avoiding the pain of saying, no, I didn’t. will sometimes be the motivator you need, will often be the motivator you need to actually just do the thing, even if you do it poorly, because then at least you could say, yeah, I did the thing.
It didn’t go well. I’m not sure why, but maybe this is what I thought, but I did the thing. And then it’s okay, good. Now we can talk about why. And maybe I can guide you to what you might try next and then hold you accountable. So that when I ask you next week, whether or not you did the thing and tried the stuff we talked about, you could say no and feel terrible about it.
Or you could say yes. And we can build this positive forward momentum. And that’s just that for me, it’s like, it’s the secret sauce, but it’s not really a secret sauce and not so secret sauce of coaching.
[00:06:45] Mark Misiano: Fascinating. I realized, like you said to you, when you said you bring your whole self to this podcast, whether it feels silly or physical, I bring my whole self to those coaching sessions.
I am very authentically me in coaching sessions and we’ll tell people like, I could be a little blunt. How are you going to handle it if I’m a little blunt with you, right? And asking some of those questions. And it’s coaching is such an interesting combination for me too, of part instructing, part challenging, part accountability, right?
There’s all these different parts to it, where I find that some coaching sessions are an hour long of. Kind of me talking and teaching because there’s skill sets involved in job searching that nobody really teaches. You’re not flexing those skills often. So even if you did it 10 years ago, it’s not going to look the same, it’s not going to be the same.
So I’m teaching a lot, then I’m challenging, then I’m motivating. So you wear so many different hats, sometimes even within a single one hour coaching session. And so getting to do that is fun because it keeps my days really interesting that like it’s never a boring day and it’s never the same thing twice.
Which I really
[00:07:46] Kevin Stafford: that’s really it’s really great and I love it’s cyclical in a very positive way because as you like you build relationships with the people that you’re coaching whether it’s you know, even just a one off or not even a one off but whether it’s like a relatively short engagement and then they’d like they find success and you’re like, all right.
See, see and see you next time or it’s we know if you know anybody who might need my help or then you have these longer engagements where you have people who are just like they find your coaching so invaluable. And you just find yourself on this in this very virtuous cycle, as opposed to a vicious one, where it’s just okay so we’re gonna.
Basically just we’re gonna, we’re gonna do teaching and you’re, you almost put on the teacher hat and you’ve got like you, you’re standing, you’re almost like pointing at the blackboard, whatever, because people are just like, sponging up all of these necessary skills and concepts that they may have been like exposed to or aware of, but have never really engaged with themselves.
And sometimes they just really need that information given to them in a way that they can absorb. And then, like you said you grow into, okay, so how does this apply to you? You go from, tactics to strategy and back and forth. And then it’s, obviously that big dose of accountability where sometimes all you talk about is why or why you didn’t do the things that we talked about and how what might your blocks be, it’s almost like it’s borderline, it’s definitely not therapy, but it’s sometimes can get borderline where it’s just I’m just asking you pertinent questions.
That are going to feel a little bit harsh because you’re not going to like the answers you have for them. Not because I’m being harsh, you just don’t like what you have to respond to with the questions I’m asking. It’s and it’s, like you said, it really, it keeps it. So fresh both for you, obviously, which is really important because the last thing you need to do is get burned out trying to coach people who may be burned out on the job hunt process, but it also keeps them engaged like it’s being on a job hunt can be demoralizing.
It can make you think less of yourself. There are so many traps and pitfalls there and being able to bring that positive energy. to a coaching engagement, whether it’s a teacher or an accountable, accountability coach. I’m zoom bending words now. Whatever it happens to be bringing that positivity and that whole self to it is in and of itself so valuable as an aspect of a coach.
[00:09:46] Mark Misiano: Agreed. It’s always really interesting to helping people find that motivation and keeping them on track and then talking about the mental health aspect. I do a lot of teaching of strategy tactics. Here’s how you can do things, but I. Always always take time, especially in the past three or four years to really say to people, how are you doing?
This can be a really difficult process. How do you keep yourself on track to make sure that when you are demoralized and when this is just the most depressing thing, because it takes Months to find a new position. What do you do? Are you getting outside? I want you job searching, not in your bedroom where you sleep so that it doesn’t feel like you’re caught there.
We talk about getting cheerleaders, people in your life who love you and care about you, not to give you any sort of advice. And I tell people, ask for what you need. What you need from them is not advice. You have me for that as your coach, what you need is somebody to maybe. a friend or a family member could be an accountability partner.
Hey, check in with me every week and make sure I did at least 15 applications. Or maybe you just need some encouragement. And so you say every other day, I need you to text me and tell me number one, everything’s going to be okay. Number two, I am smart. Number three, I am valuable beyond my profession. Like you need people saying these things to you because people neglect the mental health aspects.
Of what a job search can be like, it’s, it’s incredibly depressing for some people. And a lot of what I coach to is how can you make sure that you don’t give up for two weeks and then miss the perfect opportunity that you would have gotten if you had just kept on for a little bit longer. And so resiliency is a really big aspect of what I coach to, in addition to all the skills people need to be
[00:11:30] Kevin Stafford: successful.
And I’m so glad you chose the word resilience because that was the one that was going back and on the back of my head as you were talking said that resiliency is not just like a, it’s not just a white knuckle act of will. It is small choices that you make dozens and dozens of them every day like the choice to instead of staying in your sweats, which feels comfortable.
Maybe you do move out of the bedroom and you move into the dining room or your home office or whatever but you keep in your sweatpants and just the way that kind of like you did a couple days in a row and you’re starting to feel a little too casual and so it’s and it’s not that you need to like you know get dressed and put on a suit and a tie or you know whatever you’re is you wear to be professional it’s not you don’t have to do that every day but you do have to make sure you maintain those structures that allow you to be resilient that Put you in a position to be resilient and thrive when not if when the opportunity presents itself for you to really show out and land that job you’ve been hunting for a while, right?
[00:12:24] Mark Misiano: So it’s fun to get to see changes in people as they realize the importance of things like that. And so because I do feel like especially when I put that teacher hat on. With limited time to coach people, if we’re going through all of, what are job search tactics you can undertake, and we’re doing that in just an hour, I feel like oftentimes they’re really drinking from the fire hose and I’m trying to give tips and tricks and I’m saying, think about these principles and adapt them and apply them to you and take them and run with them and make them your own.
And so it’s nice to take a step back from like the, that intensive, get all this information so you can use it so you can get your next thing as quickly as possible and take a step back and go. But also you need to take care of yourself and you need to make sure you’re doing these things.
The cool part of this is that I really have learned to implement these things for myself, not because I’m in a job search, but because I work from home by myself and I am an extreme extrovert. And so I had to learn how to. How to go from my bedroom to my home office. And like you said, there were months at the beginning where I was like, sweatpants, right?
I was all about it. And then I was like, Oh, this is really bad. And so I set those boundaries for myself. And then it allows me to enjoy the aspects of being home and working from home that are benefits, right? So I get to go to the gym in the middle of the day, whenever I want. And I get to, play with the dog or throw laundry in and do all these things.
But I do it, like you said, around Kind of a set structure so that I’m still productive. And so I can I can, I get to empathize with clients a little bit and say I know what it’s like to be sitting at home, but you can adjust and adapt and do these things to make it a productive time and to make it a time that you’re, really working towards your
[00:14:04] Kevin Stafford: goals.
Yeah, it’s really it’s so much a matter of the intentionality where you just have to make a decision to be like, it’s not just relax and just let things happen because whenever you just let things happen to you and just become a product of your environment, things go, they may not go rapidly downhill, but they will be on a downward slope for a while.
And I, like you said, I really love accentuating the positive aspects of imposing a structure on yourself. Like I, you get up, you make your bed, you get dressed, you do whatever when the time come when it’s lunch. You can go into your own kitchen and throw something together instead of opening up the Ziploc bag with the sandwich you had earlier or going out and spending, 15 bucks on sweet greens or whatever it is you’re doing to go to them to have a decent meal.
You have this optionality at home that you could really embrace and take advantage of and turn into a positive, even as you’re engaged in an activity that is traditionally. viewed and experienced in a very negative fashion. Granted, you don’t have to tell yourself, a big, bold story about how great it is that you lost your job, and it’s the hunt is it’s fantastic.
I love all these options. Everything looks great. It’s I’m shopping. You don’t have to lie to yourself, but it’s important to embrace the positive aspects of your situation, and having someone who’s just hey, Here’s six ways you could do that. Here’s 17 more for you to try when you’re ready.
It like you were talking about the fire hose, where it’s just like trying to give them just enough to get started and also leave them with a lot more to implement on their own. You have so much to pack into those one hour coaching sessions.
[00:15:25] Mark Misiano: That’s right. And then when people adapt that mindset of res and develop in themselves, resiliency, it really then.
Kind of leads into tenacity. And I tell clients all the time that there are two types of people who get jobs, tenacious people and authentic people. And so then we say take this. Job search by the reins, right? This is yours to navigate. And I have too many clients who I go, okay, let’s talk about how your job searching.
What do you, what does a job search look like for you when you sit down? I go on indeed. And I hit the quick apply button. And then I wait to hear from a hiring manager and I’m like, okay, great, cool. So we have so many other tools in our arsenal and here’s how you get out in front of it because. You have to be tenacious to go get that job that you want, and there are ways that you can do that in ways that are not pushy, not, not going to be off putting to hiring managers, but ways that are going to be effective.
This is a marketing campaign. We are marketing you to fill a role and to fill a position. And so we have to get in front of the people that are going to be the decision makers, just like if you were to walk into target. and need a new broom. A broom is a broom. One has the wooden handle and the straw bristles.
One has the red handle with the dustpan and for some reason sideways bristles. Be that red one because you’re going to grab the attention. You’re the one who’s being tenacious and saying, hey, look over here. I have exactly what you need. I’m the solution to Your problem. And so when you can do that and then be authentic, right?
Like we talked about before, bring your whole self to the interview, bring your whole self to a message on LinkedIn or an email to a hiring manager. That’s the kind of thing that attracts people when they feel authenticity and that you’re the solution to their problem. So I say, dude, those two things out of your resilience comes the tenacity.
And then you get to take control of your job search instead of click click, sit on my hands and hope
[00:17:14] Kevin Stafford: something good happens. Yeah, I love the dual emphasis on authenticity and tenacity, because a lot of people will have one or the other, but not both. And the tenacity is what allows you to really like, again, get the attention that you’re looking to get from the people who have what you want.
The jobs and the authenticity. It has a lot of benefits. But one of the key ones that I think about a lot is how it’s without you having to really think about it. So long as you are thinking about and showing up authentically, it allows you to find roles that you’ll be in alignment with. Rather than put on some sort of mask or dress yourself up in some way that you’re you don’t really feel great about it’s not really who you are you actually show up as yourself you’re much more likely to be hired as yourself doing something to being yourself doing what you’re good to great at for people who appreciate that who not only appreciate that but who actively seek that out found you and are super excited to have you in it really like having both you There’s really, it basically, I don’t want to say it’s like the magic recipe, but it really does ensure that where you do end up, you will end up somewhere and you will be not only happy, but you’ll be able to thrive there and be of service and have an impact.
And that’s just, again, there’s no guarantees in life, but that’s as close as it gets. If you have the authenticity and the tenacity. Working together. It’s not a whole lot you can’t do. Not to be all like your cheerleader, but now I’m feeling like I got my cheerleader pom poms on now because I’m like, yes, that’s it.
That’s the stuff. I
[00:18:36] Mark Misiano: love it. No, that’s perfect. It’s such a good point, right? Because I talk to clients all the time to say. As you get into the interview process, it’s really, I say not to freak you out more than is already you’re freaking out because of this interview, but first interviews or the interview process in general is like holding hands on a first date.
It’s I have this and you have this and we’re going to, we’re going to reach across the table and hold hands and it’s all about fit, right? It’s about that fit because if it were about qualifications, we wouldn’t need interviews. Because qualifications are down on paper, that’s what the resume is for.
Now, you might get questions about qualifications as you go through the interview process to make sure you’re the same person they saw on paper. But ultimately, it’s about fit, right? We need to make sure that we’re going to be good working together. And when you’re authentic, you can actually tell if that’s the case.
Because the most qualified person doesn’t always get the job. It’s the person who can show up as their true authentic self, bring your whole self into the situation, and then they go, Oh. I can work with Kevin for eight hours a day and know that he’s cool and we can hang out like He’s not going to be a burden on me, he’s not going to make me like want to tear my hair out it’s a time for us to come together and go, Oh, this is a good fit.
And the best fit is the
[00:19:45] Kevin Stafford: one that gets the job. Said, and I’m doing the thing that I said I would do I’m looking up at the zoom clock and being like, Oh, we can both talk for five more hours. And not what I’m going to talk about on this very subject, but this is a great time to wrap up. I love that emphasis on fit.
Again, that’s something that pretty much every, actually without exception, every coach I talked to fit and authenticity and alignment. Those are they’re basically just drink. If have a shot of espresso. If you hear one of the buzzwords and I, I’d be buzzing.
I’d be literally buzzing by the end of an interview before I let you go. Where can, thank you so much for sharing some time today. I’m like, I’m feeling pretty energized right now after, after talking with you. I can tell you’ve got a very good extroversion energy. I’m like, oh yeah, I feel like I can take on the world now.
But before I let you go. Where can people, if they just want to learn more about you, like your story, your journey, who you are, how you show up in the world, where can people find out more about you? And if it’s different, it’s probably the same, but where can people connect with you if they want to start a conversation, start a relationship, find out more about the packages you offer and see what might be right for them, maybe, sign up for a newsletter, all that jazz.
Where can people basically take action? So
[00:20:48] Mark Misiano: first place that you can find me is on LinkedIn. So check me out on LinkedIn message me. I love, I get tons of messages every day. So send me a message. I will respond check out my website to resume ready. co check out all the different packages, writing, coaching, all that good stuff there.
Plus, my calendar is directly there on the website on the contact page. So you can get on my calendar right away. Free consultations. We meet for 30 minutes. We talk strategy and action items after I get to know people and learn a little bit more about them. I also am really active with the professional association of resume writers and career coaches.
So I always encourage people to check them out. Lots of great webinar content. I lead a bunch of stuff for them. We have a. Annual conference for career services professionals that I’m a part of planning the thrive conference in Orlando coming up in April 2024. So I will be there live and delivering a session.
I’m thinking on chat GPT and how that impacts our industry. So it’ll be fun and interesting. So I am very active in the industry and love getting
[00:21:48] Kevin Stafford: connected with new people. Awesome. Shoot. I will certainly connect with you. I don’t think I, I think I, I like to wait to connect on LinkedIn and until we’re about to record just in case, like there’s a confusion or we actually had a meeting on the schedule a while ago and you got a nasty case of strep throat and had to reschedule, which is totally fine.
But I like to save that like connection request for, Hey, you missed. Hey, you missed our. You missed our meeting. You missed our podcast. But yeah, I’m gonna connect with you as soon as we’re done. And yeah, so much. I I’m excited to talk to you again. I’ll probably slide into your DMs here in a little while.
And just, I love the work that you’re doing, because you’re focusing on an area, and I feel like a lot of good coaches do this, where there’s a gap. Or a place where people fall through a lot of cracks that needs some bridges and that bridge from whatever happened with your last job to whatever is going to happen with your next one.
A lot of people just they get lost there, they get demoralized, they find themselves on a wrong path, maybe they get on to a wrong job path or career path that they would have been able to realize wasn’t right for them had they had the right advice or the right guidance in the moment. And so I really appreciate.
The bridges that you’re building and the gaps that you’re filling. I think it’s, I think it’s great and important work now more than ever. Appreciate that. Thank you so much. I always, I feel like I always end these conversations by just blowing smoke up a coach’s butt because I’m genuinely like, man, what you do is great.
And your approach is really it’s really like unique, but also very grounded and aligned with like core coaching principles. And yeah, I just, I usually end every episode by like organically praising the coach because I’ve just had a great experience. And so forgive me. And also I’m not sorry.
[00:23:18] Mark Misiano: I love it. As a one person business, I need some encouragement like that sometimes. I’m gonna take the recording and just put it on repeat in my office. Let’s
[00:23:26] Kevin Stafford: put it on loop. That’s great. Little morning affirmations. Yes, sir. Oh Mark, thank you so much. To the audience. Thank you so much for listening.
You know what to do next. I say it every time. Links to everything will be in the show notes. LinkedIn is easy to find. Mark Messiano is relatively easily spelled. We’ll have everything spelled correctly in all the right places. Take action at the very least, even if you’re like gainfully employed and feeling great in your job, just connect with Mark on LinkedIn.
As you’ve heard, he’s pretty great to talk to. So you might want to just, take him up on that offer. And here on the podcast, we will talk to you again very soon.
