With featured guest

Gail Rudolph

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Gail Rudolph | The Remarkable Coach | Boxer Media

Gail Rudolph is one of just 13 people on Earth with a training certificate for the Robert Cialdini method of persuasion. If you’ve ever read Cialdini’s seminal work, Influence, you know what a big deal that is.

In this episode of The Remarkable Coach Podcast, Micheal and Gail talk about the six principles of influence, power dynamics in the workplace, and why persuasion isn’t a dirty word.

A bit about Gail:

Gail is an Executive Coach, Author, and Trainer with 25 years of serving in leadership positions across a spectrum of organizations.

She holds a master’s degree in Human Services Administration, a Bachelor of Science in Psychology, and a Leadership Certification from the Stanford Graduate School of Business. She is a Value-Based Leadership Expert, Wiley DISC Consultant, NLP Practitioner, and a Certified Fund Raising Executive (CFRE).

She’s also an Executive Director on the John Maxwell Team and formerly served on the President’s Advisory Council. On top of all that, Gail is a Cialdini Method Certified Trainer (CMCT), one of only 13 people globally —and one of only two women and the only woman in the United States— to hold this distinction.

Where you can find Gail:

Website: https://gailrudolph.com

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/gail-rudolph/

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/GailRudolphAuthor

Where you can listen to this episode:


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Micheal Pacheco 0:00
Hey, everybody, and welcome once again to another episode of the remarkable coach podcast. I’m your host, Michael Pacheco. And today with me, I have Gail Rudolph. Gail is an executive coach, author and trainer with 25 years serving in leadership positions across a spectrum of organizations. She holds a master’s degree in Human Services Administration, a Bachelor of Science in Psychology and a leadership certification from the Stanford Graduate School of Business. Gail is a value based leadership expert, Wiley disc consultant, NLP practitioner, and a certified fundraising executive. She’s also an executive director on the John Maxwell team, and formerly served on the President’s Advisory Council. Gail is also he Aldini method certified trainer, one of only 13 people globally, and one of only two women, and the only one in the United States to hold this distinction. Gail, you have clearly been slacking. What’s wrong?

Gail Rudolph 1:46
Yeah, yeah. You know, I think I’m an avid learner, I think that there’s always a way to grow and to better ourselves and to learn different things. So, you know, my father was a school superintendent. So it got ingrained in me from an early age,

Micheal Pacheco 2:01
I think we need to have a talk about addiction.

Gail Rudolph 2:06
There comes a point where you have to stop learning and put it into practice.

Micheal Pacheco 2:14
Awesome, Gail, thank you for joining us, I love to open up this podcast by just kind of inviting our guests to talk a little bit about themselves. And tell us what got you into coaching?

Gail Rudolph 2:24
You know, I really got into coaching because I was working in the corporate world health care, and actually sitting in the C suite. And I was seeing so many consultants come in, we were spending massive amounts of money, to have consultants come in to work with us on a project or to work with us to build team. And what would happen is when they would leave, I’d noticed that very quickly, when everything went back to the same. And I started to realize that there was a real disconnect in training somebody and having them make a change, and behave and act differently. And it was kind of through that, that I of course, I’ve always been interested in psychology, so but it was actually through that that made me say, we need to coach there’s a difference between knowing something and actually putting it into practice. So it was watching all that money go down the tubes. That made me say,

Micheal Pacheco 3:17
I’ve got to get into coaching. Nice, nice. And how did you What did that shift look like for you?

Gail Rudolph 3:24
You know, it was quite an interesting shift. I had always been involved in leadership and trying to advance anything that we could possibly do. And it was it just so happened that I was planning on actually moving out and starting my own business in about three years. But sometimes, you know, the universe God has a completely different plan about that. And I got they restructured and my position was actually let go. So I was kind of thrown in it. I was I was like I gotta make that work. So I one of the first things I did was become a member of the John Maxwell team and became a coach with his leadership material. And then from there kind of built some things out I started doing consulting started taking on coaching clients. And then from there, Dr. Cialdini ended up writing my own book on power dynamics, so just kind of unfolded from there.

Micheal Pacheco 4:23
Awesome. Yeah, I’ve so I’ve personally have read influence a couple times and pre suasion once obviously, like this is important work. What What inspired you to to get involved with with Robert Cialdini Did you Did you read the books first, and then you kind of found it that way? Or

Gail Rudolph 4:45
I actually saw him speak first. So I actually heard him speak. I love the idea that it was scientific. It was research based, and then went and took his course actually, by him and then And from there, it was at that course that I said, Hey, you know you have some I actually had met a certified child Dini method certified trainer, and I said, How did you become one? And he they explained the process, which was grueling. Okay, I’m just gonna flat out. It was going and teaching Dr. Toby’s material back to him. It was orals and calm. She had to pass an exam after that week of spending the time with him, you know, teaching him his own studies, which was was quite interesting. Then if you pass that piece, you had to have an audited presentation. So then you would you were allowed to go out and present the material, but they came in they audited you, I got a letter grade about every 15 minutes, notebooks full of notes on changes, I should make completely, completely different than anything I’ve ever encountered. So there’s a reason there’s only 13 people in the world that have made it through that process.

Micheal Pacheco 6:02
Well, how do you? How do you use that in your coaching?

Gail Rudolph 6:10
I use that all the time on my coaching, because of the interesting thing about the principles of persuasion that Dr. Cellini did, and most people don’t know is that he went undercover first. So he actually put on disguises, he changed his clothes, he changed his demeanor. And he actually went undercover to places like us card sales, training, marketing agency training, he actually even went under carpal cover in the cult to see why and what they were using to get people to say yes. And it was this real life world experience that he then took back to the laboratory and said, What can I prove? And what what plays out? And that’s when he came up with the six principles of persuasion. So when we talk about persuading people, we as coaches, we are constantly persuading people, because what happens is they have behavior that they don’t see themselves are standing in their way of maybe reaching a goal. And I use these principles all the time. I’m working with people

Micheal Pacheco 7:12
there. I mean, forget about, forget about being a coach, we were before I hit record, we were talking about parents talking about trying to persuade.

Gail Rudolph 7:23
You know, people get so upset. They’re like, Oh, you’re persuading, you’re negotiating. I’m like, just be a parent, you’re doing that every minute of

Micheal Pacheco 7:30
every day. For a spouse for that matter.

Gail Rudolph 7:33
True. True. Yeah. We don’t realize that we put negative connotations to things that aren’t negative.

Micheal Pacheco 7:39
So yeah. Awesome. Can you would you just maybe give us a quick, a brief intro to Dr. Cialdini and the six, the six methods, and for those of us for those of us listening who are not familiar?

Gail Rudolph 7:57
Absolutely. So there are six universal principles of persuasion. So they cross time they across cultures, and they are pretty much laws and they’re scientific. They can be taught, they can be learned, we can understand them. And the first one is reciprocity. So reciprocity, our societies are built on reciprocity. It’s ingrained in us from when we’re young children, right. And it’s based on the principle that when to give first, basically, and when we give first that people feel obligated to give back to us. So for example, I know if I would bring you a cup of coffee, chances are in a week, you know, next week, the next week we get together, you’re going to be inclined to want to bring me back a cup of coffee. Because we we have that ability to want to give and that that ebb and flow back and forth. And that’s reciprocity. Liking is probably the simplest one, we prefer to do business with people we know like and trust. In fact, a lot of times we will look for ways to actually do business with people we like. So liking is very simple. The second the third one is consensus or sometimes called social proof. And that we can see the internet has made it when we go to a town, we pick up our phone and we look at Yelp, right? Basically, it’s what are other people doing in the same situation. So we look to see what other people are doing and how they’ve made decisions. And Yelp is a great example of that. We look for it for restaurants, stars, all kinds of things like that. What are other people doing in that same situation? thority is another is the fourth one and authority is we look to people who have authority to make decisions on how to do things. Now, we’re not talking about people in authority. We’re not talking our boss, we’re talking about people that are an authority. These are people like our lawyers, our CPAs our doctors, we look to them, when we don’t know how to make a decision on something we look to what they’re doing. So authority is a big one. So I always tell people, if you don’t have your credentials listed on your, your email, right, or some way to show you an authority, you need to do that. Because it’s it’s one of the principles. The next one is consistency, we have a desire to remain consistent with things that we’ve said or done or taken a stand on before. So, you know, we we, as human beings, we we don’t like dealing with people who are wishy washy, that change their mind all the time. And because of that, this principle of consistency is very powerful when you talk to people, and then the last one is scarcity. We find things to be more valuable when they’re scarce. And, you know, Black Friday is a great example of this where there’s only so many TVs, actually, you know, in a certain amount of time that scarcity. What’s interesting is that, and I always joke about this as is that they’re losing the principle of Black Friday. Because companies are like extending it right to be a month long sale, you can get it the week before, it’s as many as they have out on

Micheal Pacheco 11:22
Monday. If Cyber

Gail Rudolph 11:23
Monday, right. So what’s happening? Is they what they had with the principle of scarcity, they’re actually starting to dilute. So it’s it’s kind of interesting to see that people are not even aware of these, they sometimes stumble on them. And they know they work but they’re not aware of the principle. And and how to activate it or how not to diminish it.

Micheal Pacheco 11:47
Yeah, yeah. That’s great. Perfect. So that’s, that’s a little, little mini lesson on GLD. Any, that’s great. Tell us about your your clients, who are your clients? Who are your ideal clients? Who do you typically work with?

Gail Rudolph 12:01
I typically work with executive level people, although I’ve worked with a lot of lower level people that wish to be executives, right and need the need to learn how to influence and work those power dynamics. I started out my career thinking I was going to work mostly with women and minorities, and even wrote my book thinking that that’s where, where it was good to go. But what I found is I have just as many male clients as I do women, so best laid plans, right?

Micheal Pacheco 12:35
Yeah, that’s great. And how do you so how do you? How do you get your clients like you have a lot of certifications, you’ve gotten a lot of varying different skills? How do you market yourself with all of that without, you know, without getting information overload?

Gail Rudolph 12:53
Well, one of the best ways that I market myself is to speak in front of people, I think there’s nothing better than for people to actually meet you, and to encounter what you’re doing. But we, you know, we connect with people and that ability to be able to connect with them. So my way of getting new clients is anytime I can get in front of people in any way, shape, or form. You know, I do do some Facebook Lives. I do have a community that I work with and do that with. But I have to be really honest with you that the majority of what I do comes from when I interact with people, one on one. So if I have the opportunity to speak to a chamber group, if I have the opportunity to do a book club, if I have the opportunity to go and give a five minutes, talk anywhere on any zoom thing. Those are the ones that I definitely make sure that I do.

Micheal Pacheco 14:01
Yeah, that makes sense in going back to chi Aldini, six principles, you know, speaking in front of people, you’re gonna build that likeability, you’re gonna, so you’re gonna get that trust, right? You’ve got authority, because you’re the one standing on the stage, you’ve kind of got maybe social proof, right? Because there’s a whole bunch of people in the audience. So that’s three out of the six

Gail Rudolph 14:25
I think that when you’re when you’re picking a coach, I mean COVID has done some great things for us on being able to get videos out there and and be able for us coaches to actually produce material at home where it doesn’t have to be in a studio. So it’s actually opened a lot of opportunities, but in some aspects, it also is created the sea of information so when people go look for a coach, they don’t know why to choose you. And that peace can be completely over. You know, kind of overruled the minute they hear you speak or the minute they have some interaction with you

Micheal Pacheco 15:00
Yeah, yeah. So how did you overcome? How did you overcome that during COVID?

Gail Rudolph 15:04
We actually did. We did a lot of join us for a conversation here. We did a lot of I released a book. During that time, I did a lot of free keynote speaking events, I did a lot of let me come on and speak to your group, about a certain topic.

Micheal Pacheco 15:26
For the keynotes was that like, like digital online summits, that kind of thing.

Gail Rudolph 15:30
They were both they, of course, during COVID. And that, that one year and a half, they were all online. But But then what happened was when people started getting together again, then you got called back to do them in person, which is much, much better than than online, if you can actually do it. But being real, I think is the biggest thing for a coach. You know, I know when I’ve looked for somebody to work with, I don’t want them to be such an authority, right? But they’ve never made a mistake, and they don’t know what I’m going through. No. we’re all human beings. And I think that’s one of the biggest mistakes coaches make is saying, hey, you know, I know about all this stuff. And it’s not. I’ve traveled this road before. So who do you want as your guide? Right, somebody that’s traveled the road before, and made mistakes and knows which direction not to go? Or, you know, somebody who claims to know everything, but hasn’t actually lived with it? Mm hmm.

Micheal Pacheco 16:30
Yeah, yeah. The authenticity is a huge part of building that knowing knowing likability and trust.

Gail Rudolph 16:41
Yeah, I always, you know, I, I work a lot around power dynamics and power dynamics in the workplace. And that’s because I was not very good at it. So what I do is I create a guide, then for you to be able to work through those power dynamics in and create a win win situation and your work environment. Because, you know, I fumbled all the way through, and I was clueless, so why not learn from my mistakes and learn the things that I learned in order to be able to maneuver?

Micheal Pacheco 17:13
Yeah, so your, your book is called Power Up, power down. And it’s on power dynamics. Tell us a little bit about about that. And what what we can look forward to in the book.

Gail Rudolph 17:24
Well, the book is, is specifically about power dynamics in the workplace. And I define power is really simply kind of the capacity or the ability to direct or influence either the behavior of others or a course of events. So many people confuse power with being a authority and dominance. And power is actually not that what the power that I’m talking about is your interpersonal power, nobody thrives under dominance, you know, real power is being able to maintain control of yourself. Viktor Frankl made a statement that’s famous, you know, that between stimulus and response, there’s a space. So the book really talks about how to use that space, because power is available. Power is an energy that ebbs and flows and every interaction we have. And that space is really choosing whether you’re going to power up during that time or power down. And powering up is kind of a choice we make to step into the fuller presence. And powering down is kind of admit intentionally changing your stance or creating an environment. So when I explain it like this, when we get pushed, we pushed back. And when power dynamics, especially in a workplace happen, or in any relationship happen, when people are pushing against each other, nothing gets accomplished, and people walk away upset. So when we talk about power, and the power dynamics is the energy that ebbs and flows, there is a need to power up at times and the need to power down at times to keep that energy flowing freely back and forth. And that’s what we’re really talking about was written as a guidebook to understand, you know, how do you power up and how do you power down?

Micheal Pacheco 19:11
Yeah, very cool. Very cool. Do you think this does this apply to modern distributed teams as well? Or is this more specifically for, you know, let’s say a headquarters with you know, 500 employees.

Gail Rudolph 19:26
Our is our right, and we know when somebody kind of eludes power So, years back, I was at a meeting there were about nine of us in a room and somebody you might have heard of before Morgan Freeman walked into the room. You can probably imagine how the energy changed in that room. Sure, right. Some people walk into a room and their power is just there. I mean, through his acting, he’s learned how to, you know, be a powerful person without even saying a word. And that’s something we all learn. It’s all at our disposal at any given point in time. And we just need to tap into it. And that’s the energy. I’m talking about the ebbs and flows. So it doesn’t matter whether you’re on video camera or your remote, you’re still interacting powers. Interactions still happen in email exchanges, you can see it, it happens in families. I did a I did a session on you know how to survive the holidays with those people talking about all the power dynamics that happen in a family. So nothing changes. We’re still humans. And that energy still exist.

Micheal Pacheco 20:38
Cool. Yeah. So I mean, it makes sense. Like, obviously, to me, like Morgan Freeman walks into a room, clearly, like, the guys, Morgan Freeman. People are clearly going to, you know, show deference and have respect for this guy. I mean, can you know, can an entry level employee or a middle manager also make this work for them? And if so, how?

Gail Rudolph 21:09
Absolutely, it’s all through it can be your tone of voice, it can be the words we use, it can be our body language. So the first thing I say is let’s take a lesson from the animal kingdom. So the animal kingdom when they want to express power, they spread out, they take more Oh.

Micheal Pacheco 21:45
Justin, we’ve got an issue here, where the internet is cutting out.

Gail Rudolph 22:02
Ah, you’re back.

Micheal Pacheco 22:06
That was a bad one.

Gail Rudolph 22:08
I was gonna say I completely lost you there.

Micheal Pacheco 22:11
bad one. That was a bad one. All right, let’s keep let’s keep going. Okay, so

Gail Rudolph 22:16
I’m trying to remember where we tried to thought was, we were talking about

Micheal Pacheco 22:19
taking up lots of space like Don Draper.

Gail Rudolph 22:23
Yeah, taking up lots of space, lowering your tone of voice. Putting strategic pauses, even even though the words you say, you know, we, us them. All can be ways to either power up or power down to create this type of atmosphere. When we talk about power, we talk about really holding on to your own interpersonal power. One thing I learned was that when you what happens is that when we get upset when we yell, we give our power away. You know, and I think that’s one thing that people like Morgan Freeman have learned by having to be in the public sector, they don’t, I say that the majority of them have learned not to lose their temper, right? Not to give their power away. And that was one thing for me, I kind of woke up one day with the epiphany that nobody takes our power, we actually give it away. And, you know, holding on to that power. Sometimes we can’t change the outcome. But but how we could feel about it, once we’ve had an interaction sure

Micheal Pacheco 23:32
can make a difference. Yeah, that’s great. So so taking up space, lowering your voice strategic pauses using tribal pronouns, like we and us, these are all kind of tactics right to get that. Is your book primarily tactical? Or is it more on the strategic side? Or is it maybe a little bit of both?

Gail Rudolph 23:54
Well, it’s a little bit of both. There’s some things that I talked about in the book that are more, you know, I gave you that because a lot of people tend to go towards one they’re familiar with, and I, I gave them opportunities to learn other ones. But there’s so much more when it comes to power. I always say that the secret sauce to power is how we hold our boundaries. You know, boundaries are simply parameters we put around our time and our energy and our money. And one thing that happens in the work setting is that we’ve allowed our boundaries to be interrupted, and we don’t know how to hold our boundaries. So I tell people, if you say you need your time off at night, and you’re getting mad at somebody because they continue to text you after 7pm At night, then my first question of them is what do you do when they text you? And 90% of the time I hear back while I text him back, and I tell him, I’m like well, no, then you’re not holding your boundaries. Yeah, it seems so it seems so You know, it seems like obvious right that you don’t text them back. But what happens is when we get in a work situation, many times those boundaries, we think that we need to do that in order to be effective. And if you’ve ever studied Juliet plan, she talks about whitespace. And especially whitespace in the workplace, and we need the ability for our mind to shut down to, to re reboot and become creative again. And, you know, we talked about generations, but we’ve become workaholics, our phones, and computers are supposed to make life easier. But what they do is, they have created for us no physical boundary. And we see this this last year to write with COVID. And working from home, you know, used to be we go to work, we leave work, we drive home, and there was work and life was here. And with computers and various things, it’s all gotten muddled. And what happens is, if we don’t hold our boundaries, that’s our secret sauce to holding our power. If we don’t hold our boundaries of how we’re going to use our time and our energy and our money, they will get taken away from us boundary busters will come in and just eat them up.

Micheal Pacheco 26:12
I love that you call them boundary busters. That’s great. Keeps it? Awesome. Gail, tell us what are some things that you that you struggled with when you first started? Coaching?

Oh, when I first started coaching, I think the first thing I struggled with is Who am I to help you? You know, who am I to kind of tell you what to do?

Imposter syndrome kind of thing?

Gail Rudolph 26:38
Yeah, kinda Yeah, very much the imposter syndrome. And I think we as women, we definitely have that right. But, you know, it’s like, what do I have the offer? And I think it’s impostor syndrome. But it’s more about our mindset of really, I always say, if we talk to other people, the way we talk to ourselves, we would not have any friends or family around us, right. But we talk to ourselves. So critical, like, oh, my gosh, what am I doing? And I think what one of the things that I did when I started not only wondering what did I have to offer, but also thinking I needed to have all the answers. And coming to that realization of you know, you have the answers for your life. And you all I’m doing is helping you figure out and draw out those answers.

Micheal Pacheco 27:27
You need to have the right questions.

Gail Rudolph 27:30
I love it. When people go, Well, I had an idea. I’m like, okay, yeah, I’m off. And I giggle. I’m like, you have an idea. But the idea was always already always there. It’s just now being drawn out of you. And I think kind of that that kind of approach to coaching really helps because it helps people become their best version of themselves.

Micheal Pacheco 27:53
Yeah. Yeah, that’s great. What about? What about some big wins, we talked about your struggles, what kind of what kind of big wins Have you had for your for your clients?

Gail Rudolph 28:04
You know, what some of the biggest wins that I think my clients have had is when they learned to actually one of them is to step into their power. So there’s, there’s one lady that I know, that was really wanting to get a promotion, and she was having a hard time with their boss. And she was having a little bit of problem with that impostor syndrome to, you know, good enough. And I worked with her around that and hurt she her boss had asked her to go with him to a meeting. And it was a fundraising meeting and they had volunteers that were coming and they were going to work out how to get funding for a project they had going on. And when she when she got there, it was an evening meeting and it was dinner. She happened to be the only female in the room. And I happen to know her boss who was anything but egotistical, but he slipped up and he said, Well, Kelly’s here to take notes. And when Kelly was sharing the story to me, I thought, Oh, this I know exactly what would have happened before coaching. But I was so proud of her because she was before coaching, she would have, you know, set their fumed about it went home or family would have heard about it, everything would have been a disaster for the next week, she would have been so upset. But Kelly said deal. I heard your voice in my head. And I think that’s one of the biggest compliment a coach can get is I heard your voice and say I have power in the situation. And I don’t have to be confronted to get it. So Kelly actually spoke up the moment her boss said Kelly’s here to take notes. Kelly did not miss a beat. She spoke up and she said That’s right, because I’m developing the strategy for this project. So I’m probably going to interrupt you. I’m going to ask you to speak up because as I develop the strategy, I want to make sure that I get every point that you guys have, so I will be and throughout the evening she did actually interrupt and tell people to speak up. And she left that meeting feeling completely different than what she normally would have felt. But she had learned a way to deal with the situation where she didn’t have to be confronted by her boss. She didn’t have to be angry because we all make mistakes. We always say we all say the wrong thing at the wrong time. And I think that goes back to having you know that most people have noble intent. Most people are not trying to, you know, put you down or be disrespectful. She actually got a promotion. Out of that out of it. Her boss called her in the next day and said, You know, I think it’s fine that we talked about promoting you.

Micheal Pacheco 30:38
That’s great. That’s awesome. Yeah, cuz I mean, I feel like definitely, you’re in a group meeting and being told that you’re there to take notes. That’s a little bit, you know, it’s doesn’t probably doesn’t doesn’t necessarily feel great. But then she flipped the script on it and said, Yeah, I’m taking the notes, but these notes are for me, because I’m, I’m because I’m running the show.

Gail Rudolph 31:00
Right? Yeah, I’m developing the strategy.

Micheal Pacheco 31:04
That’s awesome. I love that. That’s great. Cool, what about? What kind of recommendations would you have for people who are just getting into coaching?

Gail Rudolph 31:18
No, I think the biggest recommendation is, look at who you’re surrounding yourself with. I think one of the biggest things that coaches do is they don’t surround themselves with coaches that are actually doing, doing what they want to do. We tend to think as coaches that we, you know, we need to be our own little thing. And there’s competition, I guarantee you, there’s enough, there’s enough business out there for all of us, we don’t have to compete with each other. But surround yourself with people who are making it happen with the people that you want to be like, you know, if you’re the smartest person in the room, you need to pick a different room. So find those communities of coaches, there are plenty of Facebook groups, LinkedIn groups, opportunities to connect with people who are doing what you want to do, but, you know, push yourself to grow in those areas.

Micheal Pacheco 32:08
Yeah, love that. That’s great. That’s, that’s super smart. That’s a super good one. Awesome. Well, Gail, is there is there anything else that you would like to chat about that we haven’t touched upon, before we kind of wrap up here.

Gail Rudolph 32:24
Um, you know, I think I just want to encourage everybody that, you know, you have the ability to grab and harness your life, your power, your influence. And don’t let anything stop you from doing that. You have value to bring to everybody you encounter, and you add value to everybody that you interact with. And don’t sell that short. Many times, we think, Oh, I’m just talking to this person, I’m just talking to that person, we all have something that we can contribute to any and everybody that we come in contact with. And as a coach, you have the power to change the trajectory of somebody’s life. And that is not something to be taken lightly. It’s also not something to to, to think that it’s not a small thing, it’s a huge thing, you have the ability to make somebody else be a better version of themselves. So I commend everybody who decides to enter into this coaching business, because it’s not easy work. You have to be on on top of your game 100% of the time, and I just commend all of the coaches that are out there doing it.

Micheal Pacheco 33:35
I love that. Can I Can I add something to that? Absolutely. So I think not only do you have as a coach, do you have the power to change someone’s life? But you have, you have to also think about the second and third order effects of that. So one of the reasons why my accompany boxer got into working with coaches and into the coaching space is because of we’re a marketing agency with marketing. There’s not, you know, you can’t really make the world a better place with marketing necessarily. You have to market good stuff, right. And the way that we see it is the second and third order effects, right. So as a coach, your second and third order effects is when you’re working with someone in the C suite, when you’re when you’re working with an executive they’re Leveling up is going to trickle down to to their subordinates. And that’s going to trickle down to their sport, right. So you’re effecting change at the top at the top of the funnel. Right, which is not a small deal, right. That’s a big deal. And I think that’s like, you know, I don’t know, I just I completely agree with everything you said, I commend every coach that does that kind of work, because it’s not easy. But you know, thinking about all of the good that you can do, especially, you know, just yeah, that kind of that kind of change. I think that trickles down in the second and third order effects too. that can be huge.

Gail Rudolph 35:01
Well, and I agree with you, and one of the things I tell, all the leaders that I work with is that they need to model the way. You know, they it’s like parenting when you’re in leadership. It’s not do as I say, right, and that was I do, it’s, they’re gonna watch how you’re doing things. And they’re gonna, they’re gonna watch how you model that. And being able to model that is is huge. And modeling the way is key. One of the you talked about trickling down, you know, not only in an organization, one of the biggest compliments I ever got from one of my teams when they came back, and they said to me, I think you’ve saved my marriage, and you’ve made me a better parent towards my children. Whoa, you know, it doesn’t just affect us in one area of our lives and affects us in all areas of our lives.

Micheal Pacheco 35:51
Yeah. 100%. Awesome. Gail Rudolph, you also have a community that you would like to invite our listeners and viewers to join you tell us a little about that.

Gail Rudolph 36:03
Yeah, so we do a reflection of the day it’s a it’s a short picture with a thought. And it’s really just intended for you to think about and to, to spark new ideas for you to be creative. And we do it Monday through Friday, and you can join that and get that that reflection of the day at Gail rudolph.com backslash join. And we invite you to actually join our community and get that we also have a newsletter that goes out. You can also follow us on Gail rudolph.com. We are and on Facebook, Gail Rudolph author, we’re putting out more material every day. And you get to learn about different things like some of our offerings. So I do teach the principles of persuasion how to activate it and do that and you learn about those, those courses through our community.

Micheal Pacheco 36:53
Awesome. Awesome. Gail Rudolph, thank you so much for joining us.

Gail Rudolph 36:57
Thank you so much for having me. It’s been a pleasure.

Micheal Pacheco 37:01
pleasures, all mine. And thank you to our viewers and listeners. This has been another episode of the remarkable coach podcast, and we’ll see you next time. Cheers.

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