[00:00:00] Michael Pacheco: Hey everybody. Welcome once again to another episode of the remarkable coach podcast. As always, I’m your host, Michael Pacheco. And today with me, I have David Gallowich. David is the founder of Terra Firma Leadership, chairman of two Vistage advisory boards for chief executives and business owners, and a leadership coach for high performing leaders and teams with Bravanti.
This is David’s second appearance, his encore. On the remarkable coach and I couldn’t be happier to have you back, David, thank you so much for making time to chat with me again.
[00:00:30] David Galowich: No, I certainly appreciate the opportunity to talk to you, Michael. I always enjoy it.
[00:00:35] Michael Pacheco: You bet my friend. So our first episode for those of you listening and watching our first chat was aired on April 26th, 2022.
If you haven’t heard that already, go back and give that a listen. And David talks about all sorts of fantastic things from the importance of vulnerability to peer accountability and group coaching to surrounding yourself with the right people. And today, David, I want to just catch up a little bit, April 26th, 2022 was a minute ago.
So what is, tell me a little bit. Let me backpedal that a little bit for those of our listeners and viewers who have not yet had a chance to listen to that first episode. Why don’t you tell us a little bit about yourself in your own words, what you do and why you do it?
[00:01:18] David Galowich: Sure. Thank you for asking.
So yeah, a little bit of a long story. I started in college I learned a lot about leadership from the coach of the crew team when I was a freshman in college and really what happened was we had a high performing team at the University of Wisconsin. We had great coaches. We packed up the vans at the end of the year, and we drove out to Syracuse, New York for the international, I’m sorry for the, I raised for the rowing championships and I was all excited, but my boat took 4th place and I didn’t get on the podium. So I was in a freshman for we were 1 of the 1st races of a couple of days series. I was really bummed out. Coach pulled me aside and said, why so bummed out? I didn’t get a metal. I didn’t end up on the podium.
He said, we’re here as a team. Not here as your, as David trying to get a medal. And he said, we’re here to win the overall championship, not to win just a bunch of individual races. And you put points on the board. By fourth place, we actually put points, team points on the board.
Long and the short of it was a couple of days later, we won the national championship. And coach came by and he grabbed me and he said, do you realize now what it means to be on a team? Love that. It was a lesson that really hit home. Fast forward through a couple of years of college, trying to figure out what I want to do when I grow up.
Ended up double majoring in psychology and communication arts, looking at doing organizational development long before coaching was a field. But it was really that, that that interaction with my rowing coach that I think set me on that path. Unfortunately, when I graduated college in 1982 was a horrible year to find a job.
Interest rates were in the high teens, inflation’s double what we’ve been currently worried about. And so we actually triple what it currently is. And nobody was hiring for anything. Come from a pretty entrepreneurial family. And I got a sharp elbow on the side that said, go to law school kid.
So I took a right turn. I didn’t do the organizational development stuff that I wanted to do. I ended up going to law school. That led me down a path of starting my own law firm, started my entrepreneurial journey, ended up moving into business and running a business. And in the family of business that we had a few good exits.
And what I really learned through that whole experience was. Yeah. It wasn’t that we were smarter than anyone else. We were doing all that stuff. I studied back in college. We were learning how to communicate with people. We were learning how to hold people accountable. It was all that organizational development stuff that we did.
So I decided about 10 years ago that I just, I wanted to go back and do nothing but develop leaders. liKe I said, we had some good fortune through some other businesses and some exits there. So I decided to go back to school and get some credentials. I felt like I’d been driving without a license up until that point.
So I was fortunate enough to get into Georgetown’s Institute for transformational leadership. They’ve got a really wonderful leadership coaching program there and, the rest of its history. I just, ever since then, I’ve been working on developing individuals and teams. Love
[00:04:22] Michael Pacheco: it. I love it.
That if, yeah that, that sounds like such a powerful. Way to be exposed to the difference between, I’m upset I didn’t get a medal to do you understand now why you’re on a team, like what the power of being on a team, getting points on the board, you were a part of that.
It’s the bigger, broader picture. That seems that, that seems like a very powerful way to learn that lesson. And certainly at that time in your life, in college and impressionable young man, all that.
[00:04:56] David Galowich: Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. And I take it back to the Michael Jordan stuff we were talking about the last episode, Michael Jordan’s got a great quote, talent wins games, teamwork and intelligence won championships.
Yeah, and so you could have the greatest individual contributors on a team doesn’t mean the team’s going to win a championship unless they really play like a team. Yeah,
[00:05:15] Michael Pacheco: I love that. I love that for those listening listening to this as an audio podcast, not seeing it on YouTube. And for those who haven’t yet heard that our 1st episode.
Of course, I’m always interested in talking about the art or whatever people have hanging on their walls of their offices. You have the iconic photograph of the Michael Jordan wingspan photo. You want to tell us a little bit about the significance of that for you and what you do? Yeah,
[00:05:44] David Galowich: as I mentioned, I was a As a young lawyer, I was pretty fortunate to meet a lady who had been hired to set up a not for profit for Michael Jordan.
She asked me if I could actually do the legal work to incorporate the foundation. That led to Michael actually asking me to sit on the board and be general counsel of the foundation. And actually be involved with running the foundation for 7 or 8 years, as long as he had the 5, 1, C3. And so it’s, I don’t know if you can see the, there’s actually a personalized to Dave and I’ll note from Michael on it, but yeah. So it definitely has some meaning.
[00:06:22] Michael Pacheco: Very cool. Very cool. David, tell us so again, our first episode aired April 26, 2022. That was quite that was quite a little bit ago. Tell us what’s new in your world since then. What’s new with you, with your coaching, your clients.
[00:06:36] David Galowich: I think in, in, in spring of 2022, people were coming out of the COVID experience and that was as far as leadership, but really challenging couple of years.
I think we’ve now moved on past the COVID experience, but unfortunately, that’s caused a lot of changes in the workplace. Mostly around hybrid and remote work and how do you lead hybrid and remote environments? And so I think, the COVID scare is pretty much behind us. People are comfortable going back in public settings, but employees are saying not so fast.
I like this zoom thing. I working in my pajamas say and so that’s big thing is, I think. People are, leaders are now realizing that from a culture standpoint it’s a very different animal and so the last year, I think most of the leaders that I’ve been dealing with, they’ve been trying to figure out how to deal with the culture issues in order to lead a modern day workforce.
[00:07:39] Michael Pacheco: Yep, that is the hot button topic of course, aside from AI on this podcast and in the coaches that I speak with every single day. For the past, I want to say four or five months has been culture and everybody’s talking about it and it’s, yeah, I think I agree with you. We’re past the COVID era, if you will.
But there’s second and third order effects from that that we’re that I think are coming, are surfacing right now. And a lot of that is resulting in, uh, call it confusion around. And how to build it, how to foster a good culture.
[00:08:16] David Galowich: Yeah. And maybe starting just with a definition, what is culture? And I think sometimes people talk about culture. They don’t think about it. A simplistic way of thinking about it is culture is simply the way we do things around here. And the challenge with a hybrid and remote workforce is you don’t.
Get a chance to see the examples of how we do things around here by the people walking down the hall and in the meeting rooms. And so it’s really tough to to pick up that company vibe and to live it. Yeah.
[00:08:52] Michael Pacheco: How, for you, for your clients and your practice, what are you doing with your clients to help them?
I don’t know if resolve is the right word, but at least figure out how to navigate this new post, post pandemic hybrid workplace world.
[00:09:13] David Galowich: Yeah. Yeah. So what I’m urging them to do is it’s all boils down to communication. . And it’s, I think the thing I focus on a lot with my clients is their conversational capacity.
And their conversational skills. To make sure that they’re accurately communicating adequately and accurately communicating to people. The expectations the support and the vulnerability that’s needed to lead.
[00:09:41] Michael Pacheco: Yeah. Nice. Nice. Where are you getting your clients these days?
How are you marketing yourself these days?
[00:09:48] David Galowich: Knock on wood. I’m fortunate that I don’t do a lot of marketing. And I’ve got a very full roster, so I’m blessed with two really great vestige groups. Those are peer to peer groups for CEOs and business owners. And then I coach each member of the groups.
For the most part, when I have openings there in those groups, the members refer in people that they’d like to see around the table. And so I, I do very little marketing of myself. And then as far as the work that I do with Vanti, which is an absolutely fantastic organization. They’re out there really talking with a lot of the fortune, 50 and 500 type companies.
And I do a lot of team optimization work with them and some individual coaching through them and knock on wood. I’m blessed that it’s been really great assignments, really great leaders, really great teams. And it’s been fun to see the results that they’re all having. Nice.
[00:10:44] Michael Pacheco: Nice. Tell us tell us a little bit about before we go there, actually,
you’re getting a lot of referrals. What are you doing? If anything, what kind of conversations are you having with your coachees, um, to encourage them to refer more people in, to bring people into the organization in order that you don’t have to market
[00:11:04] David Galowich: yourself? Yeah. Yeah. That’s a great question. And I often talk to them about their business development efforts and ask the same question.
Yeah, and I am, I have to admit, I am a terrible salesperson. And if I would do the things that I urged them to do to find referrals and to talk with, customers that are very happy with their efforts and use that to leverage more business. I just have to admit, I think just showing up and doing good work with people, they’re going to refer.
Okay. And I have not been that over and saying, great. Okay. Send my way. Yeah. So I’ve been fortunate. There are some times that I don’t do that, but not that often. It’s really great. And there’s a. There’s a book that you’ve probably heard people refer to the prosperous coach.
Sure. I’ve never seen that, but I read that early on in my coaching journey and it really resonated with me. And I think the premise of the book was, you don’t need a website, you don’t need a business card. All you need to do is do your work really well, right? Show up, be a good coach, deliver value.
People are going to hire you and they’re going to tell others. And I think that’s really resonated with me and it’s worked well for me.
[00:12:22] Michael Pacheco: I love that. I think, yeah, I think there’s a good, I think there’s a lot of truth to that. And I think that it doesn’t always, it’s fantastic that it’s coming that easy for you.
It’s, I don’t think it always necessarily comes that easy. And I think even we hear on this podcast, A lot of coaches, right? This is the remarkable coach. So we get successful, remarkable coaches on here. A lot of you guys are referral based, right? That’s, you’re doing such a good job that you’re getting these referrals in.
And I think that it doesn’t necessarily happen automatically for everybody. And we don’t, not enough people talking about how to get those referrals to happen.
[00:13:05] David Galowich: Which is great. And, and, you’re in the marketing business. So you understand, creating brand awareness. I was fortunate that, I hit the ground running when I launched my coaching business and it was slow the first year or two, but I had expected it to be.
But I think it’s, in your industry, it’s all about creating that brand awareness. And so somebody new coming into the coaching business, you need to Yes you need to create a website. You need to tell people what you stand for, how you’re gonna do it. You need the business card.
I, I was poking at it using the prosperous coach a second ago. But realistically, I think those are all important things. Doing things like what we’re doing today, this conversation. And I had a podcast I’m incredibly grateful to have the opportunity to be invited to be on your podcast.
To me, as my form of marketing, I’m not going to actually go out and seek it, but when it comes my way, I enjoy the conversation. We have a great time together. And yeah, I hope that other people will listen to this and maybe someone will pick up the phone and call me. I’m really thankful for Boxer Media and you for inviting me to be on your podcast.
That’s one way of
[00:14:12] Michael Pacheco: marketing. I love it. Yeah. And that’s one of the reasons we do this podcast is for you guys to be able to do that. And I think this is in, in every way, a form, not this podcast specifically but podcasting, doing interviews, being out there. Absolutely. It’s that’s building brand awareness.
That’s building authority. It’s building trust. One of the things that I love about these kinds of this kind of content marketing is that Your, I your clients, your prospects can watch this, they can hear you speak, they can see your face as you’re talking and they can either resonate with your message or they can absolutely hate what you’re saying.
And in a way, it really pre qualifies a lot of these prospects so that when it comes time, they need a coach. If they have resonated with you and they’ve seen a few of your podcasts, they’ve seen maybe some posts on social media. It almost removes the sales part. Of, of it removes the selling because they’ve already sold because they’ve heard you talk on some podcasts and they know what your message is and they know what you’re capable of and they like the way that you talk about it and the way that you do things.
[00:15:21] David Galowich: Yeah, and then, just another thing that I did early on, and I still try to do as often as I can is just volunteerism. So I. I’ve run discommunication workshops for nonprofits for free, right? Just because I thought it was the right thing to do. But that puts you out there and it creates an awareness of your brand.
And I would encourage people to give back. And it actually pays you back in spades. I wouldn’t do it with the, Oh, I’m only going to do this. If it’s going to develop for new client relationships, do it because it’s the right thing to do. But I think ultimately, yeah, there, there is this bigger good that circles around if you do good things that.
Yeah, it’s an
[00:16:01] Michael Pacheco: interesting, that’s a whole nother conversation, but I was talking with another coach earlier today about this, there’s an interesting dichotomy, I think, between entrepreneurs that are in it. For themselves a little bit too much. Maybe they want the freedom or they want the, they want the high ceiling for income.
They want to make a bunch of money versus entrepreneurs that are really out there solving problems for people. AnD the dichotomy being, of course, that if you’re out there to really help people, those tend to be the entrepreneurs that make a lot of money. Yeah.
[00:16:35] David Galowich: Yeah. If you, I got to remember the saying, but, someone told me that Yeah, you’re why making money is not the thing, right?
You do what you enjoy and do it well, and then the end result is. You’ll make money. Make money, yeah. But if you just go into it with the intent of making money, it’s that you’re probably misguided.
[00:16:56] Michael Pacheco: Yeah. I think the, yeah. I think I know the quote you’re talking about, and I don’t know it exactly either, but it’s something along the lines of making money is not the reason you do something.
It’s the effect of doing it. Or the effect of Exactly.
[00:17:08] David Galowich: Something like that. Exactly. Yeah. And I’m struggling. There’s a great quote around it, and I think we’re probably thinking the same one, just neither of us can put our finger on it right now. Yeah, the concept. Absolutely. Yeah.
[00:17:18] Michael Pacheco: Cool. Dave, tell us a little bit about I think a lot of our listeners, are probably familiar with Vistage.
A lot of people understand Vistage Bravanti. Can you talk to us a little bit about those 2 organizations and how they’re different and what your involvement is there?
[00:17:33] David Galowich: Yeah, absolutely. So Bravanti is an organization that was originally, uh, BPI group out of Paris, France. They started, I think, more in the, outplacement talent management type space started doing leadership development probably 10 or 15 years ago.
They’re an international organization. They have. Probably 150 coaches like me on their cadre. Around the globe, and so we’re able to service large international organizations. With coaches on the ground all the way around the globe. They were purchased and rebranded a little while back.
And when they rebranded the name Bravanti, I think if I remember correctly, is to, a mashup of Brave and Avanti. And so it’s Brave and moving forward to, and just wonderful people. They’re just really there to help develop individuals and
[00:18:27] Michael Pacheco: teams. So is it similar to Vistage then? Or is it a similar type of organization or?
[00:18:32] David Galowich: No, totally different. Okay. Yeah, totally different. Okay. They also still do they do some outplacement work. They do some leadership acceleration work. They, thEy’re active in the DEI space and doing some leadership training and around the DEI space, but very different than Vistage.
Vistage is really focused on peer groups. Originally, Vistage was for business owners and CEOs. Over the years, Vistage has now developed other leadership acceleration programs that are geared towards key executives, advancing leaders, emerging leaders. And so they’ve developed a few other products. Very different than what Bravanti does.
[00:19:14] Michael Pacheco: Awesome. And then how, what’s the ideal, what’s your ideal client for a Bravanti engagement, for example?
[00:19:22] David Galowich: Yeah, generally C suite C suite leaders. A lot of times the assignments that I’ve had have been leaders that are new to their role. And so it’s integrating them with their team.
And how do you get them to integrate really fast? I don’t do any remedial work. If I get a call that says that, and I don’t think we need a lot of remedial work, but I try to stay away from the assignments where it’s somebody’s broken. We need you to fix them. Yeah I like the somebody is a a really good leader and we want to get them to the next level.
That’s the stuff I’m looking for. Sure. And then in the last couple of years I’ve really enjoyed the work where I work with leadership teams and so we have usually a 4 day program that we run with them over the course of a couple of months. That is really team optimization. And it’s powerful.
It’s really good work. Yeah.
[00:20:13] Michael Pacheco: I love the idea of focusing on, on, on proactive work instead of reactive work. Why is that why is that important for you? Why is that important for Bravanti?
[00:20:23] David Galowich: I think it, I can only really speak for myself on it. Yeah. And it’s just where my skillset is. Okay. It is just where I think I can do the best good.
As I mentioned, knocking what I’m busy, I can choose my assignments and I try to stick to what I do. And there are lots of other great coaches that do that remedial piece real well. And it just, not, it’s just something I just never enjoyed as much. And as a result, I probably don’t do it as well as others.
Nice. I had a client interview once where, halfway through the interview a chemistry call to see if we’d fit and if we wanted to work together. He said the only reason I’m doing this is my board of directors said that I need a coach. That’s awful. Tell me why your board said that it was.
I don’t know why they said that because I don’t need a coach. Oh that’s not an assignment. I’m going to take no if they’re not going into it, willing and wanting to learn. And that’s just something that I think there may be. Somebody else will be. More suited to work with the person. I
[00:21:24] Michael Pacheco: don’t know if anybody’s suited for something like that.
If you draw the parallel from let’s, let’s say sports as someone who is being coached, you’re the one putting in all that hard work, the coach is there to guide you, not do the work for you. You’re hiring you’re getting a coach, not a consultant. And that’s, I think for me, that’s one of the, one of the distinctions between a coach and a consultant is doing the work for you or we’re telling you what to do versus guiding you in a specific way.
And I think that if someone, yeah, if someone’s superior is telling them you need a coach and they’re like, I don’t need a coach. That’s a destined for failure.
[00:22:03] David Galowich: Yeah, absolutely. And I’m glad you made the distinction between coach and consultant because that’s important.
Now it’s, I think, disingenuous of me to say that I’m always 100 percent in coach mode, but if I’m slipping out of coach mode and I’m moving a little bit towards consultant, which happens from time to time, I try to be very clear. Yeah, I said that I’m switching the hat, right? I don’t want them to think I’m giving them answers as a coach, um, tagline that we use a lot, that I use a lot.
Some of my, my fellow coaches use. I’m not here to answer your questions. I’m here to question your answers.
[00:22:39] Michael Pacheco: I got, yeah, another one that I like is I’m here to help you find the right questions, which is similar, phrased differently but similar to what you’re saying there.
Yeah, that’s great. Dave, what three books would you recommend all your clients read?
[00:22:54] David Galowich: Wow. There is such a long list of them. Really it really depends on, if we’re talking teams the one that inevitably I. Urge everybody to read is Pat Patrick Linceone’s 5 dysfunctions of the team.
Love it. It’s written about a fictional company. It’s a fable that you can knock off in a couple hours, but he lays out a framework that’s really good as far as what it takes to have a high performing team. And so I definitely put that on the list. Delivering feedback and having that conversational confidence, I think, is really important.
I think Kim Scott’s radical candor does a really nice job of that. And then a 3rd book, what would a 3rd book be? juSt one that keeps being top of mind because it just shows the grit that it takes to get through life as a man, search for meaning, Viktor Frankl, just to throw a deep one in there.
[00:23:45] Michael Pacheco: That’s a great one, man.
I I’ve lost track of how many times I’ve read that book over the years. It’s one I go back to for inspiration and, internal guidance, motivation, everything. It’s a powerful book. And I think, it’s no secret that it’s a powerful book.
[00:23:58] David Galowich: Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Cause you know, it, it comes up in almost every coaching assignment that, you need to create some space between stimulus and response.
And he’s got a lot of good quotes on that in there, creating that space so that you can actually think and have the right response is incredibly important, especially as a leader. Yeah.
[00:24:18] Michael Pacheco: Yeah. That’s great. Where can our listeners and viewers connect with you
[00:24:22] David Galowich: online? Yeah, the easiest is linked in.
Gallowich is not a common name, so it’s G A L O W I C H. You can find David Gallowich on LinkedIn. You can connect with me and message me. Also, my website, www. terrafirmaleadership, that’s T E R A, firma, F I R M A. leadership. com. It’s a good way to find me as well.
[00:24:45] Michael Pacheco: Awesome. And we will of course include those links in the show notes.
David, is there anything else that you would like to chat about that we did not have an opportunity to touch upon today?
[00:24:56] David Galowich: No, I think we had a great conversation and I certainly appreciate you inviting me to be on the podcast.
[00:25:01] Michael Pacheco: You bet, man. It’s always a pleasure. I appreciate your point of view.
And I don’t think I’m trying to remember, we recorded the last episode a minute ago, but I don’t remember. you mentioning that the wingspan photo was signed and written specifically for you. So that’s, that’s amazing. That’s that’s a thing of a lifetime.
[00:25:20] David Galowich: Yeah. Yeah, absolutely.
And then my closet behind me with all my books, it’s, there’s four corporate minute books filled with signature pages where both Michael’s signature and mine on the same page. So those are the ones that I really enjoy looking at.
[00:25:34] Michael Pacheco: Amazing. Amazing. David Gallowich man, thank you so much. I appreciate you making time to catch up with me today.
Hey, good talking
[00:25:42] David Galowich: to you, Michael. Hopefully we’ll talk soon.
[00:25:44] Michael Pacheco: You bet. And thank you as always to our viewers and listeners. Without you guys, this podcast is nothing. So really appreciate you guys watching, please be sure to follow subscribe, share with somebody. If you thought this conversation was powerful, was important and someone who might like it, please share it with them.
That’d be great. And we will see you guys at the next episode. Take care.
